What 3,000 Readers Want Indie Authors to Know

Ferol Vernon (00:00)

Hello, and welcome to the Written Word Media Podcast. I am Ferol here, as always, with Ricci In today’s pod, we’re talking about an audience that we don’t always get to talk about. It sometimes gets skipped over, but it’s one of the most important audiences that can exist for our customers. Today, we’re talking about the reader.

Ricci (00:21)

Yep, I’m very excited to spill the tea, as they say, on this new survey that we conducted very recently. And we surveyed all of the readers across our different brands, got almost 3,000 responses. And we asked them a bunch of questions about how they read, why they read, what do they want from authors. And today we’re going to talk about the results and all the things they said.

Ferol Vernon (00:48)

Yeah, so the survey, like Ricci said, was conducted. We have thousands of responses directly from readers. So we have really good empirical data. We’re not reporting on a report that somebody else did. We collected this ourselves. So we’re pretty excited about that. And we’re going to go through. And there’s so much data here about readers and what they do. But we’re going to try to highlight just the stuff that’s most important to authors that we’ve learned. And I think for me, to start us off, the stat that jumped out right away that was the craziest was the volume of reading. Right? So we asked readers, how many books do you read a year? And 31% of them read over a hundred books a year, which is like a book every three, three and a half days, which is just blew my mind.

Ricci (01:37)

Yeah, it’s so cool. I was less surprised by this because the data that we’re getting are from the readers on our lists. So we have five different brands, Free Booksy, Red Feather Romance,  Newin Books. So these are readers who have signed up for newsletters that go out daily or weekly asking for book recommendations. And we know that our engagement on those newsletters is super high.

So the fact that the readers who are subscribing to our newsletters then go on to read all these books makes perfect sense. They’re really voracious. They’re avid readers. They love reading. And I mean, 31% of people who read over 100 books is a lot. But even if you go down from there, you know, I don’t know what the median was here, but it was somewhere in the like 50s, 40s or 50s. So these readers are reading a ton.

Ferol Vernon (02:17)

That’s a lot.

Ricci (02:28)

And it just makes me happy to know that there are still readers out there and people reading books and not just scrolling TikTok all day.

Ferol Vernon (02:34)

Yeah. Yeah, it was great. And I think, you know, I’m one to benchmark, right? I always do that. So like, I read about 40 books a year. So there’s about 62% of our readers read more books than me. So I was like, I felt like I was doing pretty good. was like, wow, these people really are consuming a lot of content, which is just, it’s really cool. And I think some of the stuff that I thought was really interesting, the data tells a story, but there’s also a lot of open-ended responses where readers can just write in what they say. And I thought the thing that stood out to me was when we asked, you know, why do you read? One of the readers put in, reading is like breathing to me, right? It was like, I know, was like part of their lifeblood. So it’s not just like, you know, something to do while you’re waiting for a cup of coffee, but they were like, you know, it’s literally like taking the next breath.

Ricci (03:14)

I love that response, that was amazing.

Yeah, literally the quote was, because I have been an avid reader, bold, for many decades and it is like breathing to me, I need to read. It is a daily important part of my life. A lot of the responses were actually quite beautiful.   What somebody said to be taken to other lands or times that I’ll never get to visit in real life.  

Somebody said, I’m retired, so it helps keep my mind working. Plus I love interacting with characters and I love the stories authors write. There are so many different ones out there. And when we actually gave the readers some options as to why they read and the most popular were to relax, to be entertained and to escape.   And I think it is, you know, a important part of people’s lives to be able to take some time away from the day to day and also the news cycle and social media and spend some time really immersing themselves in these new worlds that the authors that we serve are creating for them. So it is   really, really great to see that.

Ferol Vernon (04:30)

Yeah, foreshadowing there, we’ll talk about social media a little later on in the pod,   I think, you know, echoing what you said, Ricci, I think it’s really cool to see books being this escape for people, right? And getting out of their head a little bit. And I think, you know, that’s something authors should feel really great about, right? So like, it’s hard, you know, coming up with those characters, putting them in positions, it’s hard marketing, it’s hard packaging, but there’s people out there where you’re providing a real tangible benefit that’s, know, you know, some of the response that are borderline spiritual people how,   you know, excited they were to talk about their reading habits. you know, just   as a little emotional nugget for all the authors listening, feel good about what you’re doing. does have an impact. We have the data to back.

Ricci (05:17)

Yeah, know how there are those t-shirts and bookmarks that say books are magic?   Going through the survey, it really brought that to life. there are still so many thousands, millions of people out there who still believe books are magic. And   the survey really proved that. I thought another data point related to this that was really interesting is that if a reader enjoyed the first book that they read of an author, 80% of them said that they would go on to read other books by that author. So readers, they love to immerse themselves in these worlds or escape. But when they find something that resonates with them, they continue to follow that thread. And I know I personally do that, right? When I discover an author I love, I get so excited because I’m like, let me go read their backlist or even better, if it’s a series, I get to continue on with the series.

Ferol Vernon (06:10)

Yeah, I think that’s a point. the, you know, that’s that’s the way I have that on my notes as well. And so jumping ahead to sort of discovery, I think, you know, some of the discovery questions were really interesting. And I think, you know, there was a lot of themes here around free books and discovering through the author. And I think it’s just really important that authors understand that is that, you know, giving away a free book, you know, 80% of people are extremely likely to read more books by you. So we always talk a lot about series, that’s important. But really just anything you’ve written. know, once you bring a reader into your world, it’s one of the primary ways that readers discover new books is through the author. And so I think as an author, anything you can do to bring somebody into your world and expose them to the rest of your content, it’s good for you and your author business, but it’s also good for the reader because they’re looking for that, like they want that. So I think it’s really a nice   place for the two needs of the readers and writers collide.

Ricci (07:10)

Yeah, absolutely. And just to dig into that question, where the question was, how do you usually discover new books or new authors?   The top two responses were Amazon. So Amazon still plays a big role with this audience. And then the second was email newsletters, unsurprisingly, because this was a sample of readers who are subscribed to our newsletters. After that,

Ferol Vernon (07:32)

Yeah. I have to email newsletters, right?

Ricci (07:37)

Goodreads, Friends or Family, and Facebook were the next three. But I did think it was interesting that even though Amazon does not have as big a stranglehold on the industry as it used to be,   they still are playing a role in discovery. Goodreads is owned by Amazon. That is a place where readers are discovering new authors and new books.  And we did ask for these readers how many were in Kindle Unlimited, and it wasn’t the majority. About 40% of the readers were in KU, but 60% were not. And even so, Amazon and Goodreads were still a big part of their discovery tool set.

Ferol Vernon (08:18)

Yeah, and I think, you know, one of the themes throughout the survey that struck me a little bit was how important some of these library mechanisms are for discovering both   ebooks, but also audio, Libby who played that whole thing,   which was really interesting to me because, I don’t do that, we buy books, right? Because we want to support authors,   but that’s a primary discovery mechanism.

Ricci (08:40)

we want to support authors.

Ferol Vernon (08:46)

this consumption mechanism for a lot of people are these library apps. And I know maybe that’s a future pod, we talk more about libraries, but I know that’s something authors are interested in participating in. But it’s also very, very difficult not to crack for the idiot.

Ricci (09:00)

Yeah, absolutely. And we also did ask a question about AI and discovery, about whether readers are using AI tools to discover books, because we do think this is going to be a growing area of discovery. This audience so far is not using AI, nor do they seem particularly interested in using AI. Yeah, so the majority answer here by a lot was, no, I do not use AI tools to discover books, and I am not interested.

Ferol Vernon (09:17)

Yeah, that was pretty clear, right?

And I’m not interested, right? I think that was interesting, right? It’s like, not only do I not do it today, but like, I’m not gonna do it in the future either. And, you know, obviously things may change, but that signals, some of the survey questions were a little bit more nuanced and we had to do a little more analysis. This was not nuanced at all, it very sharp.

Ricci (09:30)

Yeah. However, when we asked about AI in audiobooks, the readers did say they had a preference for human narrated audiobooks,   but there was also a decent number of readers who had no preference. So although they’re not using AI for discovery, there is an appetite to listen to audiobooks that are using AI. And I think this comes down to quality. And as the quality gets better, it’s just so much more affordable for authors to turn their books into audiobooks.

Ferol Vernon (09:57)

Yeah.

Ricci (10:16)

And there were some anecdotal answers as well when we asked what frustrates you about reading, where some readers said, it’s frustrating that there’s not an audio book edition for some of the books that I want to read. And I think that frustration in three years time will be completely gone because you’ll be able to release in all formats pretty much right away.

Ferol Vernon (10:28)

Yeah, that’s going to change  and I think, know, one thing I would say is, well, I think AI is gonna become the default narration mechanism for a lot of authors in the future. There’s still a place for human narrated   audio. And I think if you do have human narrated audio and you’re gonna promote that, I would make sure to highlight that to your fans because clearly that’s something that people are interested in right now. It’s that authentic experience of a human, you know managing sarcasm well in a conversation or whatever. But I think if you’ve gone to the trouble, and it’s a lot of trouble, it’s a lot of work, and it’s a lot of cost to do that, go ahead and tell your fans, tell your readers about it.

Ricci (11:18)

Yeah, and I think this also relates to special editions. So it’s the idea of premium content versus just kind of run of the mill content. So AI generated audio is going to be just like regular content. It’s not going to be worse than that. But then you do have this premium content tier. So if you decide to do human narration, whether it’s your own voice or you’re doing a full cast or something like that, that’s going to be more of a premium type product. And we did ask about special editions and this audience were fans of buying special editions. So they did say that if they read a book that they liked, they, think of the audience that we had, 30% of them had actually bought a special edition of the book. So kind of similar to the music industry where maybe you heard a song on Spotify, you have an artist that you follow, but you’re not going out and buying the CD anymore. You are going and buying the collector’s edition vinyl.

Ferol Vernon (12:07)

Yeah.

Ricci (12:17)

because you want to hold something in your hands that is a signal that you’re a fan of this artist. And so I do think special editions, we know it’s been a trend for a while, will continue to grow and continue to be a source   of revenue and profit for authors at a higher price point than eBooks and audio might be.

Ferol Vernon (12:17)

That’s

Yeah, I think that’s just like such an excellent point because vinyl is like the perfect analogy. It’s like the music industry basically tanked with digital downloads from CDs. And then there was this period where nobody was making any money. And then all of a sudden subscription happened and   vinyl happened. And basically the market was like, hey, if you want to listen, you pay for Spotify. And then if you want to show you’re a fan, you buy the vinyl. And like, that’s still the case today. I think that was a really cool transition.  

And I think these special editions, these sort of high margin, beautiful products that are as much about sort of collectibles and signaling than they are about the content are going to become a big, big deal.

Ricci (13:16)

Yeah, absolutely. The other thing that was cool here is that the readers, at least who answered this survey, were huge supporters of indie authors. I’m trying to find the question specifically. Yeah, was on a scale of zero to 10, how important is it to you to support independent authors? And the median was eight. And when you look at the graph, it’s all skewed very much to the right. the vast majority, vast, vast majority of these readers

Ferol Vernon (13:25)

Yeah.

Yeah, it’s on a scale of, yeah, go ahead.

Ricci (13:46)

felt that was really important to   support indie authors. And I thought that was really cool to see, and to see that support come out in such a strong way.

Ferol Vernon (13:57)

Yeah, and I think this goes to sort of good news for authors and direct sales, right? So   the whole direct sales movement where the author is selling directly to the reader,   that is better for the author. But one of the questions that I’ve always had, and this kind of answers it, is like, is it better for the reader? Does the reader actually want a new link? And so we asked them, would you rather buy direct from an author, would you rather buy from a major retailer like Amazon?

Ricci (14:15)

Mm-hmm.

Ferol Vernon (14:24)

And about 23% of people said, I’d rather buy from a major retailer like Amazon. So those folks, you’re probably not going to get. The people that are like, I love my Amazon, don’t take away my Amazon. But 75% of people are up for grabs. And the biggest bucket by all is people who said, do you want to buy from Amazon or from the author directly? 57% said, no preference. Happy to buy it wherever I can get the book. So the fact that like,

most of these readers are up for grabs and they want to support indie authors, I think that’s a good recipe for our community as long as they’re marketing it properly and they let the readers know that buying direct from them is better for the authors.

Ricci (15:09)

Yeah, and I think sometimes we forget that we’re kind of like inside baseball, right? Like we know that if you buy direct from an author, that’s better for the author, but I’m not sure that the readers know that. And so it’s our job, you know, as authors and as advocates for authors to try and educate readers and say, yeah,   if you have no preference,   would it be better?

Ferol Vernon (15:14)

Lovely.

Ricci (15:32)

if you could go directly to the orthostore because they’re keeping more of the profit and you’re not going through an intermediary like Amazon. And so I think signaling that, marketing it better, there’s a lot of opportunity. And I think this was very, very positive development because it hasn’t always been this way. And part of that is just the technology is better, right? So if you have a Shopify account and you go and you purchase something, it’s so easy now. They have all your information saved and you can…

Ferol Vernon (15:49)

Yes.

Ricci (15:59)

get the product to your door kind of the same way that you would with some of the other retailers. And the same is true of author websites. If you’re using Shopify or something like that, the technology is there to actually support a seamless transactional experience for the reader or the consumer.

Ferol Vernon (16:15)

Yeah, I would argue that purchasing on a store   that’s set up well is as seamless, in some cases easier than buying on Amazon these days. mean, the software’s gotten really, really good. So I think from a conversion rate standpoint, from readers actually converting from a click to a purchase,   there used to be a really big gap there where the author built stores that just weren’t as good.

But that gap is essentially zero, think right now, especially if you’re on Shopify.

Ricci (16:49)

Yeah, I might take a little, that might be overly enthusiastic because when we look at where people are reading, a lot of them are reading on a Kindle. So I do think like the Amazon ecosystem is still the most seamless experience. Like you go to Amazon, you buy a book and it’s on your Kindle. Like if you have a Shopify store and you’re set up correctly and you’re using some third party software like BookFunnel that’s helping you, it is easy.

I don’t think that we’re at the perfect agnostic or neutral point where it’s exactly the same for readers, but I think we’re close enough and if a reader feels strongly that they want to support authors by buying direct, I think they’re willing to go through maybe that incremental friction.

Ferol Vernon (17:33)

Yeah, I think there’s an important distinction here between the purchase and the delivery. And I think the purchase, I think, is there. It’s clean enough. The delivery, you still have to hook up a book funnel or you still have to ship them a PDF or an EPUB or something. There’s still friction there. And the e-reader is an incredible moat that Amazon has, for sure. But I think as we’re knocking down dominoes to break the Amazon dominance,

Ricci (17:39)

Yeah.

Ferol Vernon (18:00)

I do think the checkout experience on Shopify is pretty seamless these days.

Ricci (18:04)

Yeah, I would agree. Check out his seamless.   And then when you look at how this audience is reading books, eBooks on an e-reader like Kindle was the top response, but it was followed very, but it was followed closely by physical books, paperback and hardcover. So I think another thing that a lot of authors who work with us think, I’m just going to sell eBooks when I run a promo, but this audience has an appetite for physical books as well. And again,

Ferol Vernon (18:21)

Yeah.

Ricci (18:33)

probably easiest for them to order and get free shipping on Amazon.   But if you offer free shipping off of your website, you might be able to get these readers to buy direct. And then certainly, as we talked about when it comes to special editions, there’s a huge opportunity there as well.

Ferol Vernon (18:49)

Yeah, so I think like, you if you’re an author and you’re considering like, should I go through the pain of setting up my paperback book? Like, does anybody really buy paperbacks, you know, using the sort of KDP interface for doing it? Like it is worth it because, you know, there is appetite among readers for both formats. And I think   both formats, you know, they play different roles in a reader’s life. You know, maybe you’re, you don’t want to bring your Kindle, you know, to the beach or to the pool or something, but you know, when you’re by yourself, you do, do you want to it? So I think there’s room for consuming these books.

in all different kinds of ways, the survey supports that,

Ricci (19:22)

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, we’re almost done here. Anything else? I’m just scrolling through to see if there’s any other interesting tidbits that we…

Ferol Vernon (19:32)

I thought

the engagement question was one that was interesting. And maybe we’d spend a few minutes. So we ask people, how do you engage with others about books? And so the number one answer, about 47% of people was, I discuss with friends and family. No shocker there, right? You read a good book, you’re at dinner with friends, you bring it up. Like those things kind of happen very organically, naturally. What shows you watching? What books are you reading?

Ricci (19:36)

Yeah, let’s dive into that.

Ferol Vernon (20:00)

But then the next highest response was actually really interesting and it was I don’t engage with others about my reading and so 35% of people basically, know reading is just for them and it sort of echoes some of the way we started the pod where it’s you know, almost spiritual therapeutic helpful And that reading really is its own thing for them. They don’t have to discuss it with someone else And I thought that was that was striking. I wasn’t expecting to see that

Ricci (20:27)

Yeah, I think similarly, we also asked like, you follow   authors on social media? And   the majority said, no, I don’t follow authors on social media. And I think part of it is this audience is not, they’re not big on social media, right? Instead of being on social media, they’re spending their time reading. Think about how many hours it takes to read a hundred books a year. That’s a significant amount of time that they’re investing in reading versus doing things online. I did think,

Ferol Vernon (20:37)

Yeah, I know that was really surprised.

Yeah.

Ricci (20:56)

What was interesting is for those who do follow authors on social, the majority said they were on Facebook.   Facebook and Instagram were kind of the big ones.   TikTok, which we get this question about TikTok quite a bit from authors, was fairly low on the totem pole of the people who answered the survey. Now I do think TikTok skews younger and there are a lot of new young readers on TikTok. So…

Ferol Vernon (21:07)

He’s all you have.

Ricci (21:22)

I’m not saying that TikTok is not a good place for authors to be. I think it depends on the types of books that you’re writing and who it appeals to. But for this audience that we surveyed,   TikTok was pretty low. Facebook and Instagram were high. But in general, this audience is really discovering new books from their email, from being on Amazon, some friends and family, not so much from social media.

Ferol Vernon (21:49)

Yeah, but I think for all the authors out there that are like, oh my gosh, I don’t want to have to keep tweeting or posting today. There are readers out there for you, right? You can reach them without social media. had 53% of our readers said, no, don’t follow authors on social media. So their discovery mechanisms are totally offline or off social anyway. And I thought that was really interesting.

Ricci (22:11)

Yeah, would say they’re they’re

off social, but not offline because we asked the same after that question. We said, do you subscribe to all the newsletters? And I think 60% of the readers said, yes, they do. So where these readers like to interact with authors is really email seems to be their primary place that they’re consuming and getting content.   And then I love this question. We kind of asked, what would you like to know about authors? Like, are you interested in learning more about authors? And if so, what?

What do you want them to tell you? And yeah, they’re like future projects and insights into characters were the most popular answers. So readers are really looking   to get the scoop on what’s coming up. What are you working on? Tell me more about the characters, which makes sense going back to the beginning, they’re immersing themselves in your world. So they’re very curious about the characters   that you have created and then what new

Ferol Vernon (22:43)

This is great.

Ricci (23:10)

projects are coming up, either about these characters or new worlds you’re creating.   And then the third was really around recommendations for other books to read. And so we see authors do this with email newsletter swaps, and you can see why it’s so effective, because if a reader likes your book, they trust your recommendations and your judgment on the books that you might be   telling them about. And so we talked about this in

Ferol Vernon (23:21)

Yeah, right.

Ricci (23:38)

We’ve talked about it in some of our email pods, but if you have some author friends who are in similar genres, you could always do swaps to help each other build your audiences.

Ferol Vernon (23:49)

Yeah, and this question, some of the opiate-landed responses here were some of my favorite, right? Like, it was just so great. Such an interesting insight into people. think, you know, what I liked best was we’re like, you know, yeah, I’m going to read a couple of them. I’m going to get to it. So like, you know, we add the question just so you know, is what would you like to know about authors? Right. And then one of my favorite answers is whatever they’re willing to share, I don’t like to pry. Their personal life as ours is as well.

Ricci (24:00)

Come on, gotta read some of them to us. Okay.

Ferol Vernon (24:17)

So basically this is an author respect or a reader respecting privacy, but you know, whatever you’re willing to share. then somebody else said, vacations and pets. That’s what they want to know about. It’s like, do you have a cat and where did you go on spring break?   and I think, my gosh.

Ricci (24:26)

vacations and pets.

Pets was a big theme. Pets was a lot of writing.

I feel like next year we’re gonna have to have that be a category. What did you’d like to know about authors? And we’ll just have a whole category that just says, pets, I wanna know about their pets. So if you have a pet, be sure to include that pet in your email.

Ferol Vernon (24:43)

hits.

Yeah, I think so.

And we have at home a pet rabbit. it’s a great pet. You don’t have to walk it. It stays in its little pen. It’s   quiet. It’s great. So I highly recommend, if you don’t have a pet, you need to connect with readers over pets. Go ahead and get a rabbit.

Ricci (25:08)

We should have our rabbits

name is Rosie and she is adorable and we should maybe bring her on the pod sometime. those on video could, could see her cause she is, she is adorable.   and yes, she is a, I know there’s cats and dogs, out there.   and I get it, but rabbit has been probably the best pet I’ve had so far.

Ferol Vernon (25:13)

Yeah, she can have a cameo.

Yeah, what were some other ones   that I really liked?   There were some that were very discerning. You know, get like, what book is being released next? A lot of that kind of stuff. And then   this one I loved. Since I read a lot of informative nonfiction, I check the author credentials in the nonfiction subject matter. So this author or this reader wants to know about the creds for the authors that they’re reading. So I think everything from

pets to your academic credentials is the things that readers want to know about you. And I think the takeaway for authors here is like, you know, they’re interested in you as a creator, as a person, whatever you’re willing to share will probably land. It doesn’t have to be your most intimate details. It can be, hey, I have a cat and here’s a picture of that cat, right?  

Ricci (26:18)

except for one thing

that I want you to share, which is politics. there were some comments that way people didn’t tell us what they want authors to share, but that they said very specifically, I’m totally turned off by authors promoting their political agendas and a bunch of others around that. So I think stay away from politics, but everything else is probably fair game.

Ferol Vernon (26:22)

That’s right, that was clear. That showed up a few times.

Yeah, and if you want to talk about politics with your readers, can. We’re just telling you what the survey says. Readers don’t like that. So that’s all we’re saying.

Ricci (26:50)

Yeah. It’s also, you know,

it’s going to be specific. We’ve talked this, this survey was taken by readers who read fiction and nonfiction. Um, we just, you know, read one of the nonfiction readers, uh, feedback. And so if you’re a nonfiction author who write about politics or has that as part of their identity, then that makes sense. But I think as a general rule, if you’re a fiction author and you’re creating new worlds, we know these readers are looking to escape. They’re looking to relax.

My guess is they’re looking for a no politics zone. So there’s not a lot of upside in going down that road if you don’t have to.

Ferol Vernon (27:26)

Yeah. I think the only other question that I was interested, we asked a little bit about the trackers. know, how do you track the books that you read? I know, you my mom is a huge reader and she keeps a little spreadsheet and everybody’s got their own ways. But I thought one of things that was really interesting about this question, we asked, you know, how do you track the books that you read? And we got some, you know, what you’d expect Goodreads as easily the number one result.

right, followed by Kindle, just the books that are in Kindle. But coming in number three   on the survey was handwritten log, which I was not expecting. But a lot of people are, you know, using either a notebook or   something really simple just to track what they’re reading. I thought that was cool to see.

Ricci (28:14)

Yeah, and there was an answer to say I use like a Google Doc, you know, or some kind of, you know, basic software, but that was beat out by far by the good old pen and paper solution that a lot of these readers are using.

Ferol Vernon (28:29)

Yeah, so it’s interesting, you can imagine the readers, they’re discovering with email newsletters, mostly friends and family, libraries. And then when a book’s finished, when it’s time to come, how comes the notebook? And they write it down to make it official. I thought that was a cool little tidbit.

Ricci (28:47)

Yeah. Well, I think that’s a great place to stop. We will have all of these results out on our blog by the time this publishes. So if you want to go and dig some more and see all the graphs and all the questions that we asked, we’re going to make that all available to you on the written word. Just go to written word media.com and click learn. And it’ll be one of the top blog posts.   but this was a really fun one and something that we’ll continue to do is to survey readers and get as much more Intel as we can.

to help authors better serve their readers and connect with their readers.

Ferol Vernon (29:20)

Yeah, I think I would say for everybody listening,   shoot us a note. Shoot us an email, find us a Facebook, whatever, and let us know what you want to ask readers. We’re going to continue to survey readers and ask them how they can interact with you all the best. So   we’re open to your ideas. We’d love to hear from you. So give us a shout.

Ricci (29:37)

Yeah, February is going to be, February will be reader month. So we’ll do as much content as we can around readers and reader surveys.   but then we can come back to it, you know, at any time, if, if you all have requests.

Ferol Vernon (29:50)

Amazing. All right, well, that’s it. That’s the pod.   Thank you and good luck. Keep writing.

Ricci (29:56)

See you later.