Hybrid Publishing Lessons with Erica Rooney: From Writing to Launch

Erica Rooney: [00:00:00] You know, it’s, it’s not the biggest revenue driver out there, but it is the big body of my work, right? Mm-hmm. It is the foundation, and then I speak on it, and then I do trainings on it, and then I do one-on-one coaching on it, right? It’s kinda like this ladder up, but it really is the foundation, I would say, of everything that I do, and that’s such an interesting question that I’ve never really thought of before, because I’m not always thinking about promoting the book, but that is that foundational thing that drives everything else I do.

Ferol Vernon: Welcome to the Written Word podcast. The podcast for authors who want to build a successful writing career. I am Ferol Vernon and I’m here with Ricci Wolman, and this is the Written Word Media Pod. Hello and welcome to the Written Word Media Podcast. I am Ferol Vernon here, as always with Ricci, and today the show has a little bit different format.

So we are coming to you live from the Walk West Podcast Marathon, which we’re very excited about. We’ve never done a live show before. And we have a guest with us, [00:01:00] author Erica Rooney. Erica, how you doing? 

Erica Rooney: I am so fantastic and I’m excited to be doing this live with you guys today. Thanks for having me.

Ferol Vernon: Absolutely. So Ricci, uh, we have talked about a lot of things, but we have never actually had an author on the podcast, so we’re really excited to do that today. Uh, and we want to get started talking about your book, uh, sticky Floors and Glass Ceilings. Tell us 

Erica Rooney: close. 

Ferol Vernon: Close. I got it backwards. Glass ceilings and sticky floors.

Now most people have probably heard about a glass ceiling before, but a sticky floor. That’s a new one. Tell us about the concept for the book. 

Erica Rooney: Yes, and I love this ’cause a lot of people are like, all right, she’s got little kids. Like, is she talking about slime? What’s the deal? And trust me, we have had a unicorn slime explosion that I do not wanna talk about on this podcast, but in my world, sticky floors are the limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors that keep you stuck.

So they show up like perfectionism, imposter syndrome, fear, burnout, worrying about what other people will think of you. But they also show up in toxic behavior such as too much wine on a Wednesday, or [00:02:00] staying in a toxic relationship or working with a toxic boss. So that’s kind of how I’ve got it defined.

Ferol Vernon: Amazing. 

Ricci Wolman: And I actually, I just finished reading it last night. It was fabulous. Um, first of all, congratulations. Oh, thank you. It’s always amazing to meet an author who’s actually gotten to the point of publishing. We know how hard that is. It’s a big deal. And a lot of what you wrote resonated. Um, I think this would resonate with anybody who is human.

Um, a lot of the self-doubt that we have in some of the, uh, self criticisms and negativity that we. We tell ourselves. Um, but what we want to do chat about today was the process of how you actually got the book published, how it’s going. Um, you were hybrid published, so maybe you can tell us a little bit about the decision to go hybrid.

Um, how did you decide that, how did you choose your hybrid publisher? Yeah. 

Erica Rooney: Well, first of all, I never thought I would write a book, and I love to start it with that because I just thought like. I don’t know. Being an author was a full profession that that’s what like John Grisham did, and I wasn’t. John Grisham and I had started a [00:03:00] podcast back then.

It was called From Now to Next, and now it’s the Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floor podcast named after the book. But I noticed all of these themes and then those themes in the book or the themes in the podcast became the chapters in the book. And so I had this collection of. Plenty of stories and all these things put together, and I did what most authors don’t.

I went ahead and I wrote the entire book. 

Ricci Wolman: Wow. 

Erica Rooney: And then I was like, okay, what am I gonna do with this? So I wrote the entire thing forward, or not the forward, sorry. The intro, the chapters, all of it. And then I started saying, how am I gonna get this out there? And then that’s when a lot of my other speaker friends were like, well, you’ve got three routes.

One is traditional publishing, which is, by the way, very difficult to do. They were like, and also you already wrote the book. That’s not kinda how it works. You have to do an outline first. You have to get that approved, so you could go that route, but it’s gonna take you a while. They said on the other end of the spectrum is self-publishing.

You can do that yourself, you can get it out quick on Amazon, but you’re gonna have to figure it out, do all the work. And back in those days, I was a full-time chief people [00:04:00] officer and I was like, I don’t have that kind of time, nor do I really have the desire to figure all of that out. And that’s when I decided to go hybrid publishing.

And so I interviewed with a few different people. Uh, a lot of my friends had used Amplify Publishing and had a great experience with them, and I met with their Cee o Narin, who I just really connected with. I felt like he understood the reason for writing the book. He understood my mission behind the book, and yeah, I just felt like a great decision.

And so I said, all right, we’re gonna go with them. The beautiful thing about Highing is it’s, or highing, that’s a new word, y’all just Michigan trade that Highing is that it’s kind of on your timeline. And so they really meet you where you’re at. If you need help with, uh, writing some of the things, they’ll give you a ghost writer.

If you need help editing, they give you that. They do cover design and then they do all the compliance stuff behind the scenes. And so for me that was the win. 

Ferol Vernon: So, um, you chose, you mentioned that you talked to a lot of hybrid publishers. What were some of the things. That you asked, like if we’re talking, our listeners are [00:05:00] considering being a hybrid publisher, how do they go about picking the right one?

What was that process like? 

Erica Rooney: I mean, let’s be real. The first thing I was worried about was the cost, right? Yeah. Right. That’s a big cost. When you go hybrid, and I’ll be real clear, it could be anywhere from 35 to 65, 70 $5,000. Wow. It can be very expensive depending on what you need. And so for me it was like, who’s gonna give me the biggest bang for my buck?

Like where can I. Where can I ebb and flow in this contract? And so we talked about price. A lot of it was, uh, did they get the material that I was putting out there? I wanted to make sure that I had a publisher that really knew and understood me. There was another great hybrid publishing. It was called page two.

They’re outta Canada. It’s a completely female owned one that was high up on my list. I really resonated and connected with them, but at the end of the day, I wanted to go with somebody that I knew a lot of people who had personally used them. They vouched for their credibility and I felt really confident with them.

Got it. 

Ricci Wolman: That’s great. So once you made the decision, how long did it take you from signing with them to actually getting the finished [00:06:00] product? And what were some of the things that the hybrid publisher amplify actually helped you do that you expected them to do? Um, and what were some of the things you still had to do yourself?

Oh 

Erica Rooney: my gosh. Well, well, well, well, the original contract was like 12 months. We can get this done. It did not take 12 months. It took, I would say at least 18 months. Wow. Maybe 20. It took a lot longer. Mm-hmm. And that’s not because of Amplify. A lot of it was because of me. I was working a full-time job, but they would say, Hey, if you wanna keep this deadline, you’ve gotta get this to me by Friday, and then it would be another week for me.

And so I would say that was more so on my end. Uh, but it definitely takes a lot longer than you think. And it is the most painful thing for me is like reading over your book for the 27th time. You’re like, oh my God, I’m so tired of my own words. Um, but some of the things that they really, really helped me with is they hooked me up with an incredible editor who was very focused on women’s empowerment, and she, this is what I needed.

I needed somebody who was a pro to be able to come in and say, [00:07:00] you have too much here. Not enough there. You need a strong transition here. Hey, a table would look good there. I mean, my editor came in and just. She took what I had and she put the pretty wrapping paper on top of it, you know, and she really helped me tie that bow with precision and make it the book that it is today.

So that was where they really. Really nailed it. And then in the place where I found I had to do most of the legwork was marketing, right? I mean, they offer you some marketing support and they do some, they’ll do podcast reach outs, they’ll do award things for you. Um, just stuff, industry stuff that they know.

But you really have to lean on your network. I did a lot of reach out, so my book was featured in Success Magazine the month after it was published. That was. By luck, that was because I reached out to an editor. I actually pitched something completely different. I think I pitched like a Mother’s Day article.

They were like, girl, we are so done with Mother’s Day. Like even though that’s in two months, that was like six, six months ago, they said, but we [00:08:00] have this, this space coming out in, um. November. Like, do you have anything that would fit there? And I said, oh, well actually I’ve got a book coming out in October.

I said, it’s endorsed by Mel Robbins. As you know, that name carries a lot of weight. And so they were like ears perked up. Oh, okay. And that’s how I got a double spread in Success Magazine. 

Ferol Vernon: That’s amazing. So you mentioned Mel Robbins. Like talk to me about that a little bit. Like how did that come about?

Because a lot of authors are looking for endorsements, awards, these kinds of things to give their book credibility. It sounds like some of that. Did that come from you or the hybrid publisher helped you? 

Erica Rooney: So I have actually, I’m actually really proud of all the endorsements I have on this book, right, because I’ve got Mel Robbins on the front.

Amazing. Uh, Natalie Ellis wrote the forward of the book. A lot of people don’t know her, but she is an entrepreneur, Cee o of Boss Babe, which is an online. Digital community for women CEOs. She runs the world on Instagram. She’s got this thing called Cee o Mama. So she’s a huge ceiling breaker. She wrote my forward.

Then I’ve also got [00:09:00] Erin Gallagher, who is big time hype woman. If you’ve seen all of the. Stuff on LinkedIn where Jamie Lee Curtis is like, wow. And they coined the toy term Hype Woman. That’s my girl, Erin Gallagher. And most of these people are all because I did networking. It’s not because of anything else.

Right. I’ll start with Mel Robbins. ’cause that’s the big name ticket. Everybody’s like, how did you get her negotiation? Hmm? Negotiation. Negotiation. Negotiation. And this is one of the reasons I went with Amplify. But narrowed it down from the other top one is she was just joining the board of Amplify, and I said, if I can get her name on my book.

My name will be on that dotted line. 

Ricci Wolman: Oh wow. So you had that written into your contract? 

Erica Rooney: Yeah, with the hybrid publisher. So I was able, well, it was more of like that verbal email contract. Yeah. It wasn’t written into my actual contract, but like we, he was gonna do it for me. He was gonna do me a solid, and so that’s how I got the Mel s thing.

And then the boss babe thing is I’ve joined [00:10:00] Natalie’s community and then I just, I asked her for a short blurb on the back. Somehow she missed it. Missed it, missed it. And actually I was supposed to have Deb Li, who was the Cee o of ancestry.com, right? The forward, but she had some family issues going on and she couldn’t do it.

And then, you know, the universe conspires to work for you, I believe. And all of a sudden I got this email from Natalie that said, Hey, I missed your email requesting this. Is there anything I can do? And I said, well actually, I need a forward and I need it today. And she said, no problem. Here you go. Amazing.

Wow. But yeah, the marketing, the networking, all these endorsements, a lot of it came from me. 

Ricci Wolman: So I wanna dig in there a little bit because it sounds so easy when you talk about it. But you know, in your book you talk about these, these sticky flaws. So what gave you the confidence to join the group email, you know, the founder of the group, uh, negotiate this, that with Amplify.

How did you actually, um. Feel really confident going in or at least overcome some of the insecurities through that Girl. I never, are you kidding me? Like, I [00:11:00] love this. I tell me all the time, I’m never confident. 

Erica Rooney: I just, my trick is I do the thing that can’t be undone and that sets it into motion for me.

Let me explain. Yeah, that’s great. I got a great analogy for you. I spent six months writing an entire book. I woke up at 4:00 AM sometimes 3:00 AM to get this this done because I had little kids and I was working a full-time job. When I got the bill to see how much it would cost to produce that book, if I had known that, I would’ve never written the book.

Hmm. Right. But now I had this book, right? My little baby, my third child. I was like, I can’t just let it sit on my hard drive and die. Yeah. I was like, I know that I would get to the end of my life and be really regretful. So for me, it’s doing the thing that can’t be undone. I wrote the book right now. I had to get it published.

Ferol Vernon: That’s amazing. Yeah. ’cause you know, when Ricci and I talk to authors, one of the pieces of advice we almost always give is keep writing. Right. That’s where a lot of writers actually get stuck. We help mostly with marketing, but, uh, it’s really interesting to hear, do the [00:12:00] thing that, that can’t be undone. I love that.

That’s a great, that’s a great thing. Well, and 

Erica Rooney: turn in the trash, right? Yeah. Like there’s so many iterations and things that you edit. Like that’s one of the biggest misconceptions is you think like, I have to turn in this perfect manuscript. And it’s like, no. You get an editor and they pull out that stuff and then guess what?

I cannot tell you how many typos are in this book still when I read it. I know, 

Ricci Wolman: I know. It happens. There are typos in there, of course, but you don’t wanna let perfect be the enemy of good. Right. Hey, look perfect. And that is what book is out the world. Exactly. It’s out there and people are reading it and you’re changing lives and you’re really helping people.

Yes. So that’s what’s really, that’s what’s important. 

Erica Rooney: But I will say too, as an author or as a published author, aspiring published authors, they always ask me like, what do you do for marketing? Did your publisher do it for you? And the answer. No, every single author that I’ve always talked about has always said, you have to pull your weight when it comes to marketing or hire externally.

It’s the only way you can do it. 

Ferol Vernon: That’s a, 

Erica Rooney: yeah, go 

Ricci Wolman: ahead. Yeah. So talk about when you had that, that spreading success, what, what happened, um, in terms of, did you see a bunch of sales, like, that seems like a really big [00:13:00] marketing coup. How, what did that translate into for you, 

Erica Rooney: business wise? Ab, I mean, even more credibility.

Right. Like once I got that Mel Robbins name and then Success Magazine behind my name, it was like nothing could stop it. Like people were instantly gravitating towards it. And so my website started getting a lot more uptick. My social media started getting more uptick, I got more followers. And also like, even though those things both happened back in 2024, I’m like, what year are we in?

I gotta think about it. 2024, like I can still bring those things up. Hey, it’s the one year anniversary in my book. Hey, it’s the one year anniversary of when I was featured in Success Magazine. So that credibility continues on with you and then big names like that too, you incorporate into your biography, right?

Everybody knows Mel Robbins. Everybody knows Success Magazine. And all I had to do was just do the thing that couldn’t be undone. Two times to get that to happen. 

Ferol Vernon: So, so on the marketing, uh, you said you really had to pull your weight, which we get, and you, you know, you did outreach, um, you did, you know, got in the magazine, all these things.

Did you do any other kind of like digital [00:14:00] marketing, um, like when the book was launching, like what was the launch process like? 

Erica Rooney: Oh, there’s a lot of lead up. I did a lot of preparation, a lot of podcast, uh, marathons, kind of like this one, you know, where I’m just always trying to promote the book. But I did a lot of assets.

I did a lot of webinars. I asked people, you know, to come do a her take Tuesday, where we would talk about different, what was her take on working moms and different things like that to always bring in and incorporate the book. Uh, I would also say newsletters galore. Trying to just get it out there on social media as much as possible, which is challenging because there’s so much social media.

And I still tell people today, like I don’t know the right mix because my book is just one piece of what I do. So how often do I promote that? Like when do I plug it in with a podcast or my speaking and how do I do all that? It’s very, it’s just a lot, right? And in the beginning it is like all book all the time.

Ricci Wolman: And so. Maybe we should have asked this right at the beginning, but when [00:15:00] you actually decided to publish the book, what was your goal? What did success look like for you and how do you feel about it today, now that the book’s been out for a while? 

Erica Rooney: Yeah. Okay. So what I will tell you is in my own little naive brain, I’m like, well, I’m just gonna make, I’m gonna make the money back that I spend on the book, right?

So I sit down and I’m talking with the Cee O of Amplify, and he said, exact same question. What are your markers for success? And I was like, well, I’m gonna make all my money back. And he’s like, no, you’re not. He is like, no, no, no. Erica like, let me just stop you. He’s like, you’re not gonna make your money back in book sales, but you will make your money back in all of the spin that you get from this.

And he was absolutely correct. The number of stages that I’ve land on, and then eventually the number of books that I’ve sold in conjunction with getting on stages. I’ll often go to different companies. Chime and Ox was the podcast that we had right before here. I’ve went out and spoken to them and given them copies of my book, and so it just amplifies the message and the voice in.

In a way that you can’t do it in any other way in, you know, shape or form, other than a book. People love to [00:16:00] have something to hold onto. Yeah, yeah. You know, they love something to take away with. And this is, you know, exactly the thing. 

Ferol Vernon: So, so Erica, you do a lot of things, right? You’re a C-level executive, you’re a speaker, you got a podcast, you got the book.

The book itself like. What does that represent for you in terms of like the overall amount of attention and business that it drives for you? Is it like a very small piece or a very big piece, or, or how do you see it fitting into everything that you do? 

Erica Rooney: It’s very foundational for me, honestly. You know, it’s, it’s not the biggest revenue driver out there, but it is the big body of my work, right?

Mm-hmm. It is the foundation, and then I speak on it, and then I do trainings on it. Mm-hmm. And then I do one-on-one coaching on it. Right. It’s kinda like this ladder up, but it really is. The foundation I would say, of everything that I do. And that’s such an interesting question that I’ve never really thought of before because I’m not always thinking about promoting the book, but that is that foundational thing that drives everything else I do.

Ferol Vernon: Really interesting. And so like for a lot of non-fiction authors who are thinking about doing the book, right, uh, [00:17:00] and are thinking about like, should I do this myself or should I, should I go the hybrid route? When you made that decision sort of backing up a little bit like. What was, what about it was like, I don’t want to go the indie route, like I want to go the hybrid route, and like what, what pushed you over the edge to make that decision?

Erica Rooney: I did. So I didn’t wanna go all the way to like having to submit proposals. Mm-hmm. I really didn’t. I was like, girls already got the book written. Like I don’t wanna go backwards and ask for permission to write this book. Yeah. So for me, that was out. Yep. And then honestly, the other route is I was like, I have done all this work.

Like I just don’t wanna do anymore of the figuring it out. Yeah. And I tell people all the time, it’s kind of like, so my husband and I got married in Mexico. We legally got married in the US because I started doing the research and there were all these things that you had to do to get married in Mexico, and I just knew that if I got married in Mexico, I would come back here and find out.

10 years later I was never really married and I was like, okay. That kind of felt like the book. I knew that if I did all this work and I put it out there on Amazon and I’d sell like. 5,000 copies. Someone would come to me and they would be like, Erica, [00:18:00] you don’t have like the I-S-B-D-N number or something.

I’d be like, oh my God. Yeah. So for me it was like I wanted someone who knew what they were doing. Yeah. That could carry me through the finish line and just make me feel like I had actually produced a professional. Book that would wanna be in a library somewhere. Yeah. 

Ricci Wolman: You want all the details taken care of about and don’t wanna worry about it.

You worrying about a lot of other stuff, so I don’t wanna find out I’m 

Erica Rooney: not 

Ricci Wolman: married 

Erica Rooney: in 10 years, you know? I mean that, that was the deal 

Ricci Wolman: for me. That’s great. 

Ferol Vernon: That’s great. 

Ricci Wolman: And then, so you have the physical book. Mm-hmm. Which is beautiful. Um. Do you have an ebook format? Do you have an audiobook format? 

Erica Rooney: Yeah, it is on Kindle and I did do the audiobook, which was a whole different exercise.

Right. And what I love is Walk West does audiobooks here. Now, I wish I had that option back in the day, but I did not. And so I actually just cozied up in my daughter’s little closet with a big. Cushy chair and all the pink tool around me, and I had to tell anybody like, you can’t open the garage door because my daughter’s room sits above the garage and you just hear err every [00:19:00] time.

So the audio book is really fun because it is read by me. Amazing. There’s also new typos in the audiobook. Yeah, that’s the beauty of audio. My duty of audio. Go fix it in post. Yeah, absolutely. But I think it’s important when you’re doing the book to do all of those avenues. Because as I’ve been promoting the book and you know, getting out there, people ask for it.

Like they don’t just always want the hard back. You know, sometimes different companies have an entire global audience and they want people all across the world to be able to get your book, but they don’t wanna ship it all the way to India. Okay, now we have an option. 

Ricci Wolman: So the audio, it sounds like you recorded yourself.

And then how did you do all the post-production? Did you do that yourself? Did Amplify help you, did you hire someone else? 

Erica Rooney: Yeah, so Amplify hired a, a third party, I believe they’re called Twin Flames, and so they worked with me over a Zoom. It was very interesting because I just had to have the, uh, book on an iPad that I could just scroll, because you obviously can’t turn pages.

It will pick up the pages and you can’t even like tap. [00:20:00] Because if you tap the iPad, they’ll hear it on the mic. Wow. They are the, whatever software they use, it is spot on. Because I would have earphones on and I would be reading my book, and the producer would come into my headphones and he’d be like, do you have a garbage truck out there?

And I would be like, what? Sure enough, there’d be a garbage truck and we’d have to wait for it to pass. Wow. That’s, you know, or we’d get to funny words that I always really struggle to say, like, um. Here we go. Anecdote. It’s in the book, but it’s one of those things where it’s like, I have to really write it down.

Um, but it was, it was a fun thing to do and I’m glad I did that. And it is kind of weird to think that like now there’s this audio book of me out. There’s that like, one day my kids will hear. I dunno. Yeah, it’s amazing. It’s 

Ricci Wolman: amazing. It’s an amazing legacy piece. Absolutely. Yeah. 

Ferol Vernon: Did you have the option to have like an actor or somebody else read the book and you chose to do it yourself or?

Erica Rooney: Yeah, so they did. They said you can read it or you can have somebody else read it. And it just felt too weird to have somebody else read my own words. Yeah. So I wanted to make sure that that was from my voice and [00:21:00] you know, that I could even kind of ad lib it a little bit there. So it was fun. 

Ferol Vernon: So Erica, big question.

Is there another book in here? 

Erica Rooney: Oh my Lord. No. This is like when you just have a baby and people are like, so are you gonna have another baby? And you’re like, can I, can I breathe? I definitely wanna do another book. Okay. But I don’t know. Which way I want it. Like what, what it’s gonna be about yet. So, I mean, I didn’t know, I didn’t know that I was gonna write the first book.

I had no idea what that was gonna be. It just kind of organically came to me and I think that’s what’s gonna be what happens with this next one. 

Ferol Vernon: Got it. Yeah. ’cause one of the, whenever we talk to authors who they, they market their books with us, they always ask, oh, like, you know, what should I do next? And I’m like, you know.

Market your books and then write your next book. That’s always the, that’s always the big thing. So we always try to find out like, when’s the next book coming out? 

Erica Rooney: Yeah. I mean, it’s incredible, like the shelf life of a book. I mean, unless you are Simon Sinek or something like that, it’s, it’s a year, maybe two.

Yeah. And it goes by so fast. And if you go back to thinking about, it took me a [00:22:00] year and a half, you know, to write my book and do the publishing process and all of that. So it’s just like, wow. Yeah. 

Ricci Wolman: So if you, um, if you had hired an actor to record the book, who, who would it have been? Oh my gosh. 

Erica Rooney: If I had to hire somebody.

Okay. So a lot of people tell me that I look like Julia Roberts or I remind ’em, but I think that’s just ’cause I have a big mouth and big teeth. 

Ricci Wolman: Big personality. Big personality. Personality. There you go. But 

Erica Rooney: I like her, so maybe I would go with her. I’m like trying to think of all like, I don’t know. I’m not a huge TV person.

I’m a very big, ever since I started writing the book, I also now really believe in supporting all the other authors that I know. That’s amazing. Yeah. ’cause I’m like, I know what it takes to write this book. Mm-hmm. So in my house, I’ve got a couple different book piles. One is the pile of books that I’ve read, I’ve marked up.

They’re great. The other is the Pile and it’s probably got about 10 books in it, of books I’ve. In process of reading, I’m very bad about like reading one Star. I’ve got 10 going on, and then the other pile of books is the [00:23:00] pile of books that I have not yet started, but they’re authors I’m supporting, but my husband thinks I’ve read ’em because I can’t, I can’t keep letting those books show up on my front doorstep if he knew 

Ricci Wolman: how many I hadn’t read yet.

Erica Rooney: Yeah, been. Hopefully he’s not watching right now. 

Ricci Wolman: Been with some of those books and authors you’re supporting. Have you been approached for doing blurbs and endorsements for them and what’s Oh, yes. I’m 

Erica Rooney: so excited. Yes. Um, I actually just wrote the Forward for a new book that is coming out. It’s being written by my friend Jenny.

And Jenny was actually on my Glass ceilings and sticky floor podcast because she is one of the world’s. First in vitro babies. And so she has put her work together. I’ll have to, I gotta find out what the book name is ’cause I gotta drop it for my girl here. But she had me write her forward, which was just such an honor to, because I know like who I was asking and how that process felt.

And then so to hear it from her and have me do that, I was like, ah. I have arrived, but um, yeah, I did, I wrote one for her. It’s called [00:24:00] Open Up, step into the Leader You’re meant to be. Very cool. So that’ll be coming out soon. She is self-publishing. 

Ferol Vernon: Interesting. It will 

Erica Rooney: be very interesting. So there’s a path for everyone.

Yeah. 

Ferol Vernon: So, um, back to the hybrid publishing, but you said a lot of things that went well and you kind of talked about how it break up. Were there any points of conflict where you were working with them and there was something where you had to kind of work it out with them? It didn’t go how you planned?

Erica Rooney: Hmm. I don’t think there was anything that didn’t go as planned. Uh, what I, what I think was interesting is I told them what I wanted for a cover or what I thought was cool. Mm-hmm. And so they gave it to me and they were like, but we don’t really like it. They were like, we really like this one. And I thought, well, that’s kind of rude because this is my favorite cover.

Yeah. So then I put it out on LinkedIn and my Instagram and I was like, Hey, I’m going through this journey. Pick your favorite color or co cover. And of course I knew which one was the star of the show. Yeah, they all picked this one, this cover. And so then I was like, okay, that’s kind of cute, I guess. [00:25:00] And the more I looked at it, the more I fell in love with it.

And now it’s just on all my stuff. I love the shattering of the ceiling, but it’s one of those things, I’m always that person that, like I’ve really tried to trust the professionals. Like if I go to the hair salon and I’m like, cut me that dude, like Jennifer Aniston from friends and they say, girl, that’s not gonna work on you.

I’ll say, okay, gimme something that will, and so I really leaned into their expertise and I mean, that’s what they do for a living. You know, this was my first time writing a book. What do I know? You know? Yeah. Yeah. 

Ricci Wolman: I love that you tested it though. Amazing. ’cause it’s sometimes, you know, either it’s, it’s emotional and you feel really.

Like that your cover was right. Um, and sometimes you’re right, but sometimes you’re wrong. And I was wrong. It’s so, and you’re wrong. But it’s so easy today to throw it up on LinkedIn or Instagram or Facebook and just say, Hey, you all, what do you think? Because those are the people who are gonna be purchasing the book at the end of the day.

Well, and that’s the thing. You get to do consumer testing on the cheap. It’s 

Erica Rooney: like, is this book made for me or is it made for the people? Right? Yes. And, and so it really was interesting to see. I was so sure of it. And then it was like, no, girl, you’re wrong. But 

Ferol Vernon: I And did, 

Erica Rooney: go ahead. 

Ferol Vernon: Did [00:26:00] you, uh, just from like the comments people, like really preferred one or the other, did you have them do poll or how did you Oh, it was like, it was like a 

Erica Rooney: hands down poll for this shattering of the ceiling.

Wow. Every single time it won. And so it was like, I only had to ask one time because it was such a re a resounding pick that one that I just had to listen. I had to listen to the experts again. So. 

Ferol Vernon: Wow. 

Ricci Wolman: So, um, as we’re getting close to time, if you could tell, um, aspiring authors out there. One thing, whether it’s something you learned or an affirmation or something you’d love them to take away from the pod today, what would that be?

Erica Rooney: Oh my gosh. There’s so many things because my, my first piece would be we’re all writers. That would be my first thing, because I never thought I was a writer. And I, that’s why I never thought I would write a book or that I could write a book until someone planted that seed in my mind. And so the first piece would be, we’re all writers, so just start writing because everyone also has something really interesting to say.

And then the second thing would be keep [00:27:00] writing because it takes a really long time. It really does. And, and it’s a process and you wanna give up sometimes and you question yourself sometimes. Uh, but it’s worth it. Right? And I would say too though, this is the piece a lot of people don’t talk about, and I’m still getting used to it, but this is a very personal.

Personal book, like there’s a lot of personal details in there. And when people come up to me and they’re like, oh my God, I read your book. I’m like, oh no. Like these carpool moms I’m with, they read my book. Like these people at baseball, the baseball moms I read, they listen to my book. Like I don’t know them like that, but they know me like that.

Yeah. And so one of the pieces of advice that I would give aspiring authors is like. Just be prepared for that, you know? Interesting. I often find it easier that strangers read my book too, than when people I know and care about and love, like my mother read the book. Y’all. I talk about her divorce in there, like I talk about some heavy stuff, but it was really interesting because she would call me or text me as she [00:28:00] was reading and she would say, you know what?

That really validates what I thought, or that really validates my experience. But it does allow you to get a lot closer to the people in your life when you write like this if you let it. Uh, but it’s, it’s very. It’s very fun. It’s a very fun process. So start writing. Keep writing. 

Ferol Vernon: I love that. That’s a great place to end.

Erica Rooney: Yeah. 

Ferol Vernon: So Erica, uh, if people wanna learn more about you, learn more about the book, like where can they go? How do they find out? 

Erica Rooney: Absolutely. You can find me at my second permanent address, which is LinkedIn I always say is the best place to reach me. I’m Erica Rooney on there. You can head to my website, erica anderson rooney.com.

You can listen to my podcast. I’ve got a few of them. There’s AI voice or victim, which will be on this show live in a little bit, and then glass ceilings and sticky floors. And then Neil, head to Amazon. You can buy this at Amazon. That’s the best place. Give, give Just Bezos your money. I know we don’t want to, but we’re going to.

Ricci Wolman: Okay. Definitely pick up the book. There’s a lot of really great stuff in here for authors, whether you’re writing or have written or you’re marketing, I think, uh, you really find this valuable. 

Erica Rooney: Amazing. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thanks for [00:29:00] joining us.