How Free Promos Can Grow Your Author Business

Ricci Wolman: [00:00:00] This is potentially a very emotional topic for a lot of authors. A lot of authors spend a lot of time and effort whining a book, and then the thought of giving it away for free is extremely painful. 

Ferol Vernon: Welcome to the Written Word podcast. The podcast for authors who want to build a successful writing career.

I am Ferol Vernon and I’m here with Ricci Wolman, and this is the Written Word Media Pod. Today’s episode, we are talking about the power of free promotion. Hey Ricky, how you doing? 

Ricci Wolman: Great. How are you doing today? 

Ferol Vernon: I’m amazing. I was excited when we decided we were gonna do this because, uh, I was like, I had so much on my mind when I got back from New Orleans and I really thought this was like something that we needed to talk about and like share with, with all the authors out there.

Ricci Wolman: I agree. I’m really excited to chat about it. It sounds like you had a wide variety of responses from authors, um, and very interested to dive into it and talk about how people feel about giving away their books for free. 

Ferol Vernon: Yeah. Okay. So the backstory, I was in [00:01:00] New Orleans. I gave a talk on free promotions at the future of publishing conference.

Um, shout out to Russell and Monica, who put on a great conference for hosting us. It was, uh, a really cool group of people, a very big mix of authors, some of whom had not published a book yet, some of whom had, you know, many books and were kind of in that middle of. The career and some of whom were super, super successful.

So it was a really wide range of authors and it was really interesting because that conference, the focus is really kind of like alternative methods of selling your books. So there’s a lot of stuff about special editions, uh, audio, direct sales, all these things that are sort of like interesting new ways to sell your books and free promotions is.

A tried and trusted mechanism that you and I are very familiar with, but it was kind of like resurfacing an old topic to a lot of these folks. And so when I got back, uh, or when I finished my talk, one of the most interesting things was how some [00:02:00] people were like, oh my gosh, you know, I’ve never thought about it that way.

You know, and we’ll, we’ll, we’ll go into some of it in, in a minute. And then there were some people that were kind of like, oh, I’ve been doing this for years. It works great. You know, so it was really two very different opinions. I think we can, we can kind of dive into where that comes from, but that, that was one of my big takeaways.

Ricci Wolman: And I think you’re right, like that conference that you go to tends to be on the cutting edge of all the new techniques and marketing tools that authors are using. And that’s very cool and it’s really important to stay on top of what’s going on. But it’s also important not to forget the stuff that has always worked.

And I thought one of the anecdotes that you brought back that was really interesting is that in general a lot of the authors you were talking to who are making a lot of money. We’re using free and we’re using free a lot. And a lot of the authors who are struggling to make money, we’re trying a lot of, um, the kind of new cutting edge marketing tools but didn’t have free in their toolkit.

And [00:03:00] so, you know, it kind of points to free potentially being more of a staple, more of a foundational technique versus some of the other techniques that are potentially, you know, level up, level two, level three, level four. 

Ferol Vernon: Yeah, and you think about like, you know, you’re climbing this mountain if you’re an author, right?

You’re trying to get to the top and that’s where you make money and everybody knows who you are and your books are flying off the shelves. And then there’s like a base camp and, and Free promotions is kind of one of those ones that’s like a base camp technique, right? And so what, what I think from that conference, one of the things that I reflected on is, you know, there are some people who had gone through base camp.

Crushed it, hiked up the mountain, crushed it, and they were doing great. And then there were people that were kind of trying to skip ahead, right? That, that like hadn’t given anything away from free, didn’t have their brand sort of in order. And those are the people that were, were having a little bit of a harder time with it when I talked to them.

And so I think it’s important to understand that like. Giving stuff away for free is not devaluing it. It’s just like that’s one of the [00:04:00] mechanisms. It’s like one of the most powerful ways you can actually get something out there before everybody already knows who you are. And once everybody already knows who you are, you know, you don’t have to give it away for free anymore.

But a lot of people are starting at the bottom of that mountain and hiking all the way off. 

Ricci Wolman: Yeah, absolutely. And I think in your presentation you talks a little bit about how other brands give away free, so we’ll get there in a minute. Yeah. But I do want to. You know, name the elephant, which is, this is potentially a very emotional topic for a lot of authors.

A lot of authors spend a lot of time and effort writing a book. And then the thought of giving it away for free is extremely painful. Um, and you use the word devaluing. They feel like maybe it devalues the work. And this is not to minimize those feelings. I think those feelings are real. And at the end of the day.

Everybody has to do what? What makes them comfortable? But this is akin to the debate over, do you, do you know KDP, KDP Select, you know, do you go why, or do you, you know, stay only with Amazon and people tend to have very strong feelings one way or the other. So you are obviously an advocate [00:05:00] for free, and I think let’s talk about why you are so.

And then I can try play a little bit of devil’s advocate and, and have, uh, on my shoulder the authors who feel very strongly that they don’t want to give their books away. 

Ferol Vernon: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, I think those two topics are related, like the, the wide versus. Exclusive debate, like it’s super loaded and like everybody’s like, I don’t wanna go exclusive to Amazon.

And it’s like, you know, I think I did the slide. Amazon’s given away, like not given away, has uh, paid out almost $4 billion through the KDP select program. And you’re kind of like, you know, that’s a lot of money. Yeah. And so I think sometimes people think about like, oh, you’re supporting Amazon or you’re doing this, but this is a company that while you know they don’t have your best interests at heart necessarily, like they have put a lot of money into the independent author ecosystem.

And I think we have to recognize that. And if you know financial success is part of what you want as an author, then you know, go get that money. And I think part of. Part of what, you know, we always talk about when you and I [00:06:00] talk to authors is like, use the tools that are there. And KDP is a great tool, it’s super good product for, for readers.

Like it’s super low friction. Like you can pick any book for $0 after you’ve paid the monthly fee. And so I think you know what that does, it creates a really good system for readers and a really good way for authors to access those readers. There’s this emotional baggage of like, I don’t wanna give away my book for free and I don’t wanna do anything exclusive with Amazon.

And I think what I was seeing when I was talking to those authors and what we’ve seen over the last couple years too, is that people can get really stuck on that emotion and it can actually really hamper their careers and their creative process. 

Ricci Wolman: Yeah. I think, you know, if somebody does feel really strongly that they don’t wanna support Amazon and there is a growing.

Group of people who feel that way for, you know, multitude of reasons, that’s fine. It’s fine to say, I don’t wanna be in, you know, Amazon’s, uh, exclusive program, or I don’t wanna support Amazon. But then you have to understand what you’re setting yourself up for. You have to understand the consequences. [00:07:00] So if you’re picking not to go with to Amazon, which.

For many authors, starting out is basically an easy button and a really good way to build your audience and build your business. That’s a, that’s fine, that’s a fair, um, decision to make. But then you have to understand, okay, it’s probably gonna take me longer, or I’m gonna have to invest more to build up my business if I’m to do direct sales or if I’m gonna try build a platform and some of these other retailers like, you know, apple or Google or Cobo.

And it’s very, you know, it’s not that it’s not doable, but it probably is gonna be a little bit more challenging and probably is gonna take a little bit more time and a little bit more investment. 

Ferol Vernon: The authors actually, that I talked to at that conference that were doing the best It, it was like, you know, oh, what, what techniques do you use?

And it was sort of all of the above. Right? They had some stuff in free, the stuff that was for free, right? Um, that was, that was KDP Select. There’s exclusive in ku. They had some, some stuff that was wide. They had some stuff that was like special editions they had, like at this conference, right. There’s a lot of Kickstarter folks, people that are really interested in that, that approach, which was cool.

But like the most successful authors [00:08:00] like. You know, had hid every camp on the way up the mountain, right. And, and were, do like, had sort of earned the right to do kinds of cool stuff. Um, and then there were some authors of fact that like, were just really pretty happy with their sort of Amazon exclusive bit.

Like they focused on like running ads, writing books, and like that was it. Then like there’s all these other authors who are like trying to learn the special edition stuff, the direct sales, and you know, that’s fun for them. Like they’re enjoying setting up direct sales and keeping more margin. And so like they’re just investing their time in a different way.

And I don’t think it’s right or wrong, but like that was what really struck me is like, hey, you’re gonna spend your afternoon figuring out Shopify and figuring out, you know, book Vault and Ingram, or however you want to get your stuff fulfilled. And you’re gonna keep a little bit more margin, but like you’re trading writing time for margin.

Right. And those are fine things to trade, but I think sometimes authors don’t think about it that way. 

Ricci Wolman: Yeah. I think it also comes down to what your goals are as an author, have to do a whole session on [00:09:00] goals at some point to, but you know, if your goal is to have fun. And doing special additions is fun, and doing Kickstarters is fun for you, then you’re doing exactly the right thing by spending your time there.

I think where it gets a little trickier is if your goal is to make money, then you have to make some really hard decisions about where you want to spend your time and. You know, a fair amount. I would say more than half of the authors that we work with, or who use the Written Word media products, their goal is to make money.

Their goal is to be able to write full-time and to quit their jobs and to be a full-time writer. And a lot of them are doing that, and it’s, um, so cool to see and so impressive. But that, if that is your goal, the easiest way to get there is by starting with using free promotion and. Amazon. Being an Amazon KDP select program makes that very easy because it allows you to have five free days every quarter where you can make your book free.

And the other option is to make your book permanently free, or what people call [00:10:00] Perma Free. Then you can be wide on all of these retailers, but at the end of the day, having at least one title free or having book one in the series three is from what we have seen and we’ve been doing this. What, 10 years now?

Yeah. Almost one. The, one of the most proven ways to actually building your author business and getting to that goal of making money and doing this full time. 

Ferol Vernon: Yeah. And so, you know, to bring up like the talk that I gave and I thought what was interesting about like, when I, when I was doing the talk and like why I wanted to do it is.

You know, there’s this concept that giving away for free is like not a profitable technique. Right? And that, and that was, and I was like, when I heard that, you know, I was like, oh my gosh. Like that’s so wrong. Right? Um, like if you’re sitting on a street quarter handing out, you know, free books, like maybe that doesn’t work.

But like free promotion is something that huge Fortune 500 companies use to make lots and lots of money. And I, you know, I was thinking like, Hey, it’s. Let’s get that information in front of these [00:11:00] authors, many of whom are, you know, entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, whatever you wanna call ’em, and let’s let you know, show them they can use these techniques to be, to be really, really successful.

And so that was like the impetus behind wanting to do that specific talk to that specific audience. And I thought it was really, it was a lot of fun. 

Ricci Wolman: Yeah, and I, um, I can’t share my screen right now. Maybe you can, but there was, there was a slide that you had with a lot of numbers on it, like a lot, a lot of numbers, um, which is a little intimidating, but maybe you can bring that slide up and we can walk through it a little bit in terms of how does the math.

Actually work because I get why it feels counterintuitive. If you’re giving away something for free, how on earth are you? Are you making money? And as you bring that up, I’ll talk about the one really easy way, which is if you are in KDP select and you do use one of those five free days because your book is in KU and in the KDP select program, on [00:12:00] those five days when your book is free, if any reader who.

Downloads your book on those free days, you still get paid out for the KU reads. So we see that quite a lot. Um, some of our audience on, you know, free books, these are, uh, free, are the newsletter that promotes free books. And you know, some percentage of readers on there are in ku, so when they grab a book for free from an author, although technically they’re getting the book for free as they read it, those authors are getting paid out on the page reads.

So that’s one very simple way. And not what you, you were talking about specifically, but I do wanna highlight that. ’cause I think sometimes authors forget that, that if they are in KU and they run a free promo, that you actually still do get your KU payouts. And when you run a free promo, you tend to see your k and p reads going up because more people have grabbed that book because you’re putting promotion behind it.

Yeah, 

Ferol Vernon: so this is the slide I think you were talking about, right? The, the, with a lot of [00:13:00] numbers. 

Ricci Wolman: Yeah. And for those people you know, who are listening on audio, what we have in front of us is a slide that has two columns, a 99 cent promotion and a free promotion, and then a bunch of different rows with different metrics from each of those promos.

So we’ll, but we’ll run through them. From, you know what, we’ll kind of touch on what the pertinent stats are here. So, yeah, so Farrell, walk me through this. 

Ferol Vernon: Yeah, yeah. So, okay. So, so what we did, and, and we’re using some hypothetical numbers here, but they are based in the reality of our business and what we see, right?

And so what you see is the, the two most common price points, the thing that readers like the most are free and 99 cents. Right. And so what I wanted to do is compare those two promotions mathematically, right? And so what, what you see is that if we start with say, 10,000 impressions for both the free and the 99 cent book, the click-through rate, so the response rate, however you want to call it on the free [00:14:00] book.

We see as like, you know, three to four times higher than the response rate on a paid book. Right? And I go through some of the psychology of this, and we can get into it in a minute, but essentially like the word free makes your brain go nuts, right? It just like, it makes you do very unconventional things that don’t make a whole lot of sense otherwise.

And so you just, you think free things are great and so. You can harness that as an author by presenting that to your readers, and we help you do that, right? So because your response rate is so much higher, even though you’re not selling any books, some, some interesting things start to make sense. Okay. So you’ll get a lot of these free downloads.

So the, when somebody clicks on a book from an email and they go to Amazon, there’s some breakage there, right? Like, not everybody will actually go through and purchase that book, but when the book is free, the overwhelming majority of people do grab that book because it’s free for a limited time. So your, your conversion rate is extremely high because there’s zero friction.

Right, and all these, uh, people already have, uh, Amazon accounts, but then, you [00:15:00] know, a little point in the side of the 99 cent promotion, your read through rate is gonna be much higher. So if somebody paid for the book, they’re more likely to read book two because they actually are more invested, right? So we see a read through percentage of, on average, around 50% for paid books, only about 10% for free books.

But what we know is that the original response rate was so overwhelmingly much higher. You’re getting a read through rate on a much higher number, and so when you sort of math all of this out, you’re actually earning quite a bit more money on the free promotion because you have so many more people that have been exposed to your book.

So even if they converted a much lower rate, the so-called top of your funnel or your total exposure is so much higher that when you pull down all the revenue numbers, you end up with numbers that are, you know, 3, 4, 5 x as profitable to the author. As a 99% promotion. 

Ricci Wolman: Right. And just to point out, this is dependent on you being able to sell other books to that reader.

[00:16:00] So in this example that we’re looking at, we’re saying, you know, book one is being set to free, and then yes, maybe less, fewer people, grab book one and read it for free. But then because that absolute number is significantly higher, the number of people who go on to purchase book two and book three more than makes up for it.

So you land up with more profit on the free promotion than on the 99 cent promotion. If you only have one book, then free is not running. A free promotion is not a good idea because you’ve got nothing else to sell, so you literally aren’t giving your only your only asset. Free, you know, on that free promo, you’re not gonna make a lot of money.

Now if you only have one book running a free promo to get reviews and to kickstart the algorithm and for some other objectives make sense? But, uh, we’re just looking at like the actual math of, you know, a 99 cents book versus a, a free book. And if you only have one book and all you’re trying to do is make money, then doing a 99 cent promo is the only way for you to make money on that specific promo itself.

[00:17:00] Yeah. So, you know, for those of you who can’t see the slide on a 99 cent promo, when you, you map it out, that author, let’s just say I’m the author running a 99 cent promo. I’m probably gonna net out around 77. Call it, you know, 70, between 75 and $80 based on the, the baseline metrics we have. And if Farrell’s, you know, an author running a free promo, he’s gonna net out closer to, you know, 250 to, you know, $275 just because of the higher.

Numbers because you know, on a 99 cent promo, there are probably 300 people clicking through and maybe 30 sales. But on a free promo, you’re probably getting closer to a thousand clicks, and then 800 people are going and grabbing that first book. And then because those numbers are so much bigger at the beginning, as you go down the funnel into book two and book three, you start making a lot more money.

Ferol Vernon: Yeah, and I think like one of the things that people also don’t always appreciate is like the value of a free promotion and, and the, the impact of that [00:18:00] super big response rate at the beginning is like, you know, that’s a greater opportunity to get those first reviews. I. For a debut book, right. Or to teach the, the retailer algorithm about your book and like what, what else it it can do.

And so I think there’s, there’s a lot of value in running these free promotions when you’re just getting started out. But like, as you pointed out, it’s not always gonna be profitable if you only have one book. And something else I hit on in the presentation is, you know, it’s also not profitable for things that have cost.

So this is all for eBooks, right? But if you have a physical book. Running a free promotion for a physical book, uh, is not gonna have the same returns because you’re, you’re outlaying a lot more cash to get that done. And so I think, you know, that is, is just something everybody needs to keep in mind.

Ricci Wolman: Absolutely. So let’s talk a little bit about how other brands leverage free, because I think one of the objections that authors have is that offering their product for free devalues the product itself. And I think in, in, in your presentation, you talked a lot about [00:19:00] how major brands that have huge brand cachet utilize free and free trials.

To convert customers and it doesn’t do any damage to, to the brand itself. And, and maybe we can go to that slide, I think where, I think you have Apple and some of the, you know, the bigger software. 

Ferol Vernon: Yeah. So like, you know, when I was doing research for this, I was, you know, it actually wasn’t very hard. I like set aside all this time in the evening, you know, I got a fresh cup of tea and I was like, okay.

Where are all these big companies getting away for stuff free? It took me like 10 minutes. Like major companies are, you know, and these are like, some of these are like Fortune 10, right? Some of the biggest companies on Earth, most successful companies on earth, they use free all the time. I. Right, and like, you know, Gmail I think is maybe my favorite example because like, Gmail costs you nothing, right?

It’s a, it’s a email service and yes, you have to watch ads, but like it’s totally free and they can market free. And because they can sign up so many people, it gives them this opportunity, these other opportunities. Even a company like Apple who you know [00:20:00] is. Absolutely on the luxury end of things. Like high price computers, high price phones, you know, high quality stuff from like all over.

You know, in order to get people to use a digital product, which is Apple tv, they give away a free trial, right? So I think it’s really important, like a company that like their whole brand and value proposition is on like super high quality, super expensive goods. Even they are using free to sell a digital product.

Ricci Wolman: Apple’s the wine that really jumped out at me. ’cause I think if. You know, you were to ask me like, you know, give, gimme off the top of your head, one of the most valuable brands. The, the two that jump to mind for me are, you know, apple and Nike, but I think Apple is, is one of the ones that would come, come to mind for most people.

And then, you know, to see it on your slide of, you know, big companies using free, and you’re exactly right for Apple tv, they incent people with a free trial. Like, you know, try it out. And when you’re running free promo on book one, it’s exactly the same thing. You’re like, Hey, I’m an author. Try me out [00:21:00] and try out book one.

And then they’re hoping you’re gonna, you know that you’re gonna pay for book two and book three and Apple TV’s the same way. It’s like, hey, try it out. You’re gonna get hooked on a show and then you’re gonna. Pay ’cause you wanna see next week’s episode of, you know, Ted Lasso or succession or whatever, you know, great show they have.

But a couple of the other brands you have on the slide are in JP Morgan with free online trades, at and t with free phones, with trade in. So once you start priming your mind to, to look around and see who’s using free as a, as a marketing techniques, they’re actually so many examples that are out there and so many examples of brands that have very high brand integrity.

So it’s not devaluing the brand in any way. And I just thought that that. For me that was, you know, a really tangible example that could give comfort to authors who feel like giving a book away for free devalues the work. The other thing that I’ve been thinking about, and I don’t have, you know, maybe a fully formed thought on this yet, but in the book industry, free is [00:22:00] in some ways, not a default, but kind of like if, if, if you were gonna pick any industry.

Free feels like the norm. I would say books. Is it because of libraries? Right. So like every town has a library, every school has a library, you know, and libraries are a place to get free books. And then we have, you know, in our neighborhood, tons of little free libraries. Yeah. Which I absolutely love and they’re popping up everywhere, but literally the name is Little Free Library.

And so, you know, and I’m a huge reader and I, I obviously am a big fan of, of indie authors and indie bookstore. So when I wanna read a book, I, I tend to purchase books ’cause I feel really strongly about that. But so many of my network who read books will get their books from the library or be on a wait list for a new release.

Yeah. Oh. I’d be like, have you read that book yet? And they’ll say, oh no, I’m on the wait list. You know, on Libby, I’m on the wait list of my library to get it. And these are people you know of means, um, who can [00:23:00] spend $20 for a new release book or, or you know, $7 if it’s an Indian new release book. Yet they don’t.

And so I think there is a bias in the world of readers and in the world of books toward free already. And so if, if you wanna fight that and fight the good fight that that’s fine. But it is somewhat of a fight. And, um, yeah. I do think you can, you know, also choose to lean into it and say, okay, free is something that people understand, and then how do you leverage it and then create a relationship with the reader so that you can, at the end of the day, you still also need to make a living from this.

So we’re not saying just give your books away, you know, for free in perpetuity, but have a strategy behind it. 

Ferol Vernon: Yeah, that’s such a great point because like libraries, like what other industry are there? Literal physical buildings in your neighborhood, giving away free stuff, right? Like that doesn’t exist for cars, doesn’t exist for, for really clothes, right?

Like even if you go to like a thrift shop, you’re still spending a few dollars. But books, there’s like this huge building in almost every place in America where you can walk in. And walk out with 10 [00:24:00] books and pay $0. Right. So like that, that’s the environment that you live in as a writer, right. Is like, that’s what you’re competing with.

So I think it’s a really interesting point that it’s like, Hey, if you wanna tell people like, uh, the library’s better than than my book, then you know, you can do that. But that’s, that’s a, that’s a tough hill climb. 

Ricci Wolman: Yeah. 

Ferol Vernon: The other point I think that I really wanna make about these companies that are on the screen is like, these companies are not doing this the same way a library is, right?

A library exists as a public good, right? They’re usually government funded and there’s volunteer organizations and everything, but it’s literally there for the good of the community of society. Uh, it is sort of an altruism thing. That’s not the case for Apple and for Google and at and t, right? Like they are doing this because it’s profitable.

And so you can bet if Apple’s doing it, it works. You can bet if Google’s doing it, it works. And I think that’s the thing that I really wanna, you know, I was hoping that people would, would come away with after the talk is that like, [00:25:00] these people aren’t doing this to save the whales. Right? They’re not, they’re not doing it just because out of the goodness of their heart, giving you three months of Apple tv.

Like they think that. They are gonna make money off of you by giving that away free. And I think authors can use that same technique that the big boys are using. And there’s really good ways to do that. 

Ricci Wolman: Yeah, and I think that’s. A very helpful point psychologically for authors, right? So when you’re giving away your book, instead of feeling like, oh, I’m a sucker, or I’m, you know, devaluing my work, what you’re really doing is you’re being highly strategic, right?

Exactly. You’re employing exactly a highly strategic tactic to achieve your end objective, which is being able to write more books and do this full time as a living, and just that simple mind shift, I think. Can really take the sting or the pain away from free if that’s what you’re feeling. I know a lot of authors, you know, they embrace free.

It doesn’t bother that they understand it as a strategy and a tactic, but like I said, there’s some authors who don’t feel that way, and that might be a different way [00:26:00] to, you know, shift the window in your mind and think about it, instead of saying, oh, we’re giving it away for free today. No, it’s just a tactic you’re using to get or to reach your eventual goal.

Ferol Vernon: Yeah, and I think this is something I talk about, you know, uh, whenever I talk to authors or, or even like other entrepreneurs, you know, in our community is like, Hey, when you’re running a small business, small organization, whatever it is, they say, you wear a lot of hats. You have a lot of different roles.

You do a lot of different things. And sometimes it can be helpful to like literally. Personify those different characters, right? So think about your author business. There’s like the chief creative officer, which, which every author is their own chief creative officer. And that person doesn’t wanna give away the art for free, right?

That’s okay. So imagine that person sitting at a, at a round table and saying like, we shouldn’t give it away for free. Then imagine your CFO. Right, because you’re also the CFO of your little offer business, and that person’s saying like, well, well, the numbers check out on this free thing. Like, let’s, let’s make the money right.

And then you have, you know, you’re also the Cee o of that, of that, uh, little, little company. And like, that’s the person who’s gonna make the call about whether [00:27:00] we’re doing this or not. And, you know, maybe you’ve got a. You know, your, your controller, you have some other people at that table that are all still you.

Right. But give voices to those people and sometimes that can help you make the decision and not let sort of one aspect of your business overrule another aspect of it. 

Ricci Wolman: Yeah. I love that. It’s like, you know, all the, all the, the little you in your mind. Yeah. That, and they’re all arguing 

Ferol Vernon: with each other. And there’s conflict, of 

Ricci Wolman: course, there’s conflict, right?

Like the artist, you doesn’t want to do what the finance you, uh, is telling them to do. And yeah. Being able to look at it that way and understand exactly what is, what’s going on, can really help to diffuse that conflict and, and reach a decision and also spend less emotional energy around it. So, yeah, 

Ferol Vernon: and I, I know we’re not talking about like craft today, but like, you know, it’s the same idea when people talk about cliffhangers, right?

Like, you know, we know very definitively that cliffhangers from book one into Cliff two, like work. They make good financial sense. Right? But, you know, maybe you don’t wanna write that because you don’t feel like doing that to your [00:28:00] reader. And so, you know, again, you imagine your little conference table, right?

And your CFO is like, Hey, this checks out. Like, let’s, let’s sell book two. You know, and then maybe, maybe your, you know, HR person is like, well, I don’t know if that’s fair or if that’s the right thing to do. And everybody makes their own decisions at that table, right? But I think it’s helpful to, to sketch that out for yourself and realize like, which, which version of you is actually making the call?

Ricci Wolman: Yeah. Super helpful. I think as we’re, we’re getting to time and wrapping up, that’s, that’s probably a, a good place to stop and whoever’s listening to this, when you turn the podcast off, you know, spend five minutes and, and try and see who are the, who are all the mini uses, who are the people at your tables Yeah.

About these different things. And it might, uh, help you, give you some clarity as to some of the, the things that you’re feeling. So before we wrap anything we didn’t cover Farrell on, on your talk around the power of free, any other like, important, you know, takeaways or insights that you have around this?

Ferol Vernon: No, I think we hit the big parts and I, you know, this was great talking about this. I, and I also like, you know, [00:29:00] talking about it in person was great. Talking about it on the podcast is, is always really important. So, you know, folks that can’t travel can, can kind of hear, can kind of hear these things. But I think, you know, the, the big takeaway that, that I sort of ended the talk with is, is like free is profitable.

It does work. It’s your call to make, and if you do make the call, you know, like Tmore Media can help you. And, and so we, you know, we do have, uh, free promotion stuff, we have stuff for wide authors and all that. But I think, you know, what I would love to end with is, is, uh, just asking the community, like, you know, what do you all think?

And is there anything that we missed here? And, and, you know, maybe we’ll do a follow up show on that. 

Ricci Wolman: Send in your comments and questions, we can do a follow up on all the feedback that we get. Yeah, that was kind of fun. Well, awesome. This has been really cool, really fun and uh, look forward to doing it again next week.

Ferol Vernon: Alright, talk to you. Alright, 

Ricci Wolman: thanks everyone for joining us. 

Ferol Vernon: Bye [00:30:00] y’all.