From First Book to Sustainable Sales

Ferol Vernon (00:29)

Hello and welcome to the Written Word Media podcast. I am Ferol here with Ricci and Ricci today we’re broadcasting from the tundra, the depths of winter here in North Carolina where we’re recovering from a catastrophic two to three inches of snow.

Ricci (00:48)

We sure are. It’s been a really interesting 10 days for us. Yeah, we had an ice storm followed by a snowstorm and nobody knows what to do about it. So   our kids have been home from school for the better part of two weeks and we’re just trying to get through here.

Ferol Vernon (01:05)

Yeah, it’s very reminiscent of the COVID era where, you know, kids are on remote learning and we’ve got four people all trying to do things in the same house,   which has its challenges in terms like our productivity and for theirs, I think.

Ricci (01:19)

Yeah, I had to take a minute yesterday and do a reframe because my to-do list has been getting longer and I just keep falling behind. So yesterday I realized I was feeling pretty stressed, but I was feeling more stressed about the fact that I wasn’t doing things and not necessarily because the things needed to get done. So I sat down and I was like, okay, we got to start over. I took out a piece of paper and I wrote down like, what actually needs to get done this week?

Ferol Vernon (01:38)

Yeah.

Ricci (01:48)

shortened the list dramatically and that made me feel a lot better and reminded me that sometimes we can be our own worst enemies in some way. We have these mindsets and we’re like, I’ve got to get all of this done. And the universe had other plans or had other plans at the moment. And so just taking a breath and resetting. So I am actually feeling a lot better today.

Ferol Vernon (02:12)

Well, that makes one of us, my to-do list is still too long and been interrupted   by the snow day interruptions. But that’s not what we’re here to talk to everyone about today. Today, we are following up kind of on our reader survey. And if you haven’t listened to the last pod where we sort of really dissected the reader trends, give it a listen. There’s some cool stuff there. But one of the points that we wanted to go deeper into today is something that we saw in the reader survey this year, but something that we’ve seen every year that we’ve done the reader survey. And that is a very specific point that authors who have more books or bigger back lists or more books in series or whatever you want to say, tend to earn more money. Right. And so today we really want to focus on the power of your catalog, your backlist, and dissect and explain some of the mechanics, how that stuff works, and why we see this pattern.

on authors sort of year after year after year where authors that write more and have more books in their catalog earn more money. So we’re really talking about the backlist advantage today. And Ricci, I know you and I talked a little bit off camera about how we’re gonna go through this. And I know you have a very interesting analogy for us to get started with.

Ricci (03:30)

Yeah, so I’ve been thinking about this a lot because this is a point that comes up repeatedly, both in the surveys and when authors ask us questions about how do I create a sustainable business writing books. And the analogy that I came up with was   just a basic store analogy. So let’s imagine that, you know, later on today you went downtown, wherever you live, whether it’s a city or town, and you’re walking around and you’re on one of the streets that have coffee shops and restaurants.

And you see a new store has opened and you walk into that store and you’re like,   let’s see what they’re selling. And it’s a t-shirt store.   and you walk in and their t-shirts, you know, hanging all over the store and all the different displays. but every t-shirt has exactly the same design and you love the design. You’re like, Whoa, this design is gorgeous. I love it. It’s totally my thing. It’s going to go great with closing my wardrobe. So you grab a t-shirt, you go up to the register, you meet the owner of the store and you’re chatting with him or her saying, hey, I love your design. This is so cool. Congrats on the store. You buy the t-shirt for 10 bucks and you walk out. Over the next couple of weeks, you wear the t-shirt, you get tons of compliments, and then you’re downtown again, you know, meeting up with a friend for coffee. And you say, all right, I’m gonna pop back into the store and see what new t-shirts they have. And so you walk into the store and once again, t-shirts everywhere and…

It’s all the same design and it’s the design that you have already purchased. So you’re like, okay, I can’t buy any more t-shirts. I’m asking you, I want to give it because I own this already. So you go up to the owner and you’re like, Hey, how’s it going? When are you going to have a new design? That’s going to come out for the t-shirts and that’s pretty much what happens with readers and books, right? Somebody picks up your book. They absolutely love it.

they read it, they devour it, they maybe tell their friends about it,   but then they wanna read the next thing by you. And so if you only have one book that’s out there, that reader, as much as they love you and support you, cannot spend more money with you.

Ferol Vernon (05:43)

Yeah, I think that’s a great analogy because, obviously in this example, the store owner is the author, right? And, you know, a lot of readers, and we saw this in the survey that finding an author that they like is one of the primary ways that they discover new reading material. Right. And so, you in this example, you know, that’s very clear, right? Like when somebody finds a store, they want more from it. And if there’s nothing more, it’s not only that,   that store owner is failing, they have a thriving store that’s selling a great t-shirt.

but they simply cannot increase their business without more products. And so I think it’s a great analogy because it really illustrates the point. And sometimes we get caught in this because books are actually very difficult to write. It takes a lot of time to produce so you can feel like, hey, I’m done.   And the truth is if you want a financially successful author career, and we’ll get to if you don’t want that later in the show, but if you do want a financially successful career, you do need additional products.

Ricci (06:45)

Yeah, so let’s talk about the ROI and how that works. So going back to our store owner, know, business is fine. A couple of people are walking off the street, but then she decides, hey, I want to actually do some marketing. let’s say the owner goes and spends a hundred dollars to put an ad in the local paper. So creates the ad and over the next week, she has 10 additional customers come in the door because of the ad that she put in.

And of those 10 customers,   eight of them walk in, look around, not for them, they walk out. And then two of the customers are like, cool, I love the t-shirts, I think they’re great. And they each buy a t-shirt. So you’ve got two customers who each spend 10 bucks. So you’ve made $20 off of your $100 ad. Now in the future, those customers might come back in a month’s time and say, hey, what else do you have? And if you have a new t-shirt, they would buy that.

So now maybe they’ve spent 30 or $40. So you’re slowly recouping the amount that you had spent on the ad because you had acquired that customer.   and now that customer has bought from you and will continue to buy from you. Now let’s just say if when you ran the ad, you had had three different types of t-shirt in the store, eight people still probably would have walked out or maybe seven people walk out. But one of those people is like, Hey, I actually like.

this design speaks to me because now they’re three, not one. And then of the two people who bought the one design, one of those customers is like,   I actually like all of these. I’m going to buy all three. Right? So now you’ve made $50 from that one $100 ad, the first time those people walk through the door. And then again, you’ll continue to recoup that investment as those customers come back and buy more things from you.

Ferol Vernon (08:37)

Yeah, so I think a really important point that essentially for authors, you know, the more products you have, the more effective your advertising spend will be. Right. Because, you know, the way I like to think about it, and this is somewhat simplistic, but you know, for every author, you got to think about like, what’s the number if somebody found you and bought everything you have, what would that number be? Right. So if you have 10 books at three bucks a pop, that’s 30 bucks. Right. And so that, that number, that’s the total,   maximum catalog value you can get from one customer.

Right. And so I think your advertising spend works much better as that number of your total catalog goes up because, know, just to take extremes, I like to think in extremes and we do have customers, you know, who have so many books. I don’t know how they do it, but if if you have a, you know, a 20 book series and each book is you know, $2 that’s still $40 of total value, right. That a customer you could get from just one customer.

And so it’s just an important number for authors to keep in mind as they look at deploying their marketing spend.

Ricci (09:40)

Yeah. And in business school, that’s called LTV or the lifetime value of a customer. So if you’re reading blog posts, you hear people throw that term around. It’s just a fancy way of saying if,   you know, a customer bought a whole bunch of stuff from you, what would that total come to? And then usually your advertising spend the cost to acquire a customer needs to be below the lifetime value of that customer, because otherwise you’re going to be upside down.

If a customer can only spend $40 with you It doesn’t make sense to go out there and spend a hundred dollars to get that customer to walk through the door because you’re never going to recoup that Delta of $60

Ferol Vernon (10:20)

Right. And the other dynamic that we often see when we talk to authors is they’re looking for that whole lifetime value after a day or two. Right. So they run some promotions and they’re like, where are my sales? Where are my sales? Where are my sales? And to a certain extent, you should see sales when you run advertising, but you won’t see the full value of that advertising on the first day because it takes people a little while to read a book. Right. And so in that example where you have maybe $40 of total goods that somebody can buy,

Ricci (10:29)

Right.

Ferol Vernon (10:50)

It might take the customer with 20 books a few months even to read all of those books and purchase all those books.   And so it’s just important for authors to keep that in mind.   Going back to our t-shirt example, maybe you wear a t-shirt and you don’t refresh your wardrobe every day. So you only come back to the t-shirt shop every quarter or so.   It does take time in order for you to get the total lifetime value of that reader and make your advertising spend more powerful.

Ricci (11:20)

Yeah, I think the other thing that happens is new authors or authors who have, you know, one, two, three books, compare their budgets to authors who have 20, 30 or 40 books. And so we’ve just talked about the math. Those are two completely different businesses with two completely different economics of how much you can spend. So

If your author friend says, hey, I’m spending $1,000 a month on ads, it doesn’t mean that that’s the right number for you because if you have fewer books, you probably are going to be less inclined to spend as much to acquire the customer or the reader that you’re targeting.

Ferol Vernon (11:56)

Right, so from a high level, increasing your backlist helps you financially because there’s more stuff to buy. It also gives you more leverage on each individual dollar spent on advertising. that’s part of the reason why we see this pattern like over and over and over again in the surveys. That economic setup still works. Having more books still works.

Ricci (12:20)

Yeah, so let’s talk about like an example that everybody will appreciate, which is this, rise of Colleen Hoover. So, I’m sure everybody’s heard of Colleen Hoover, a bestselling author. She actually started self-published. think she started writing back in like 2011, 2012, pretty much around the same time that we started written word media when self-publishing was, was just starting to gain traction.   she.

Became hybrid she got picked up so some of her books were trad some of her books were not she kept some of the ebook rights but she kept writing. And in twenty twenty when covid hit everyone was sitting at home and carlene decided that she was gonna pick five of her ebooks and make them. free so that people sitting at home had something to do and she made those ebooks free literally you know she’s giving away t-shirts at this point.

And people read those, know, grabbed those free eBooks, loved them, and then they went on to purchase her backlist. So at that point she had over 15 titles. She made five of them free and people would read the free ones and then go on to purchase all the others. I think at some point she had like the top four or five slots on the bestseller lists,   specifically on Amazon for this reason. her break, and actually her breakout book, it ends with us.

was not her first book. I think it was maybe her like eighth, ninth or tenth book.   But the fact that she had this huge catalog meant that when she did hit this tipping point, when she did go viral, fans had so much that they could purchase from her that she was able to really take advantage of that groundswell of support and that groundswell of fandom that she had.

Ferol Vernon (14:05)

Yeah, it’s really important, right? So it’s like   writing your backlist might help you today.   It might help you tomorrow. It might help you a lot when you have sort of that breakout hit,   but it helps you in any scenario. And that’s why it’s such a positive thing. And I think, you know, the Colling Hoover example is really nice and it’s a good segue into, you know, the other benefits of your backlist. We’ve talked a lot about sort of the mechanics of why it’s financially beneficial for you as an author to…

to have a bigger backlist.   there’s some other reasons to do this and there’s some other reasons to continue writing that are good for your career. I think, like you said, Colleen Hoover’s first books, that that wasn’t her biggest hit, right? And we see that dynamic on a lot of different producers, creatives, both in our industry and outside. And I think, Ricci, we were talking earlier about one that was really interesting, and that’s Hamilton.

Ricci (15:01)

Yeah. So, you Hamilton is like the probably biggest Broadway show in the last 10 years. And it was written, directed and acted in by Lin-Manuel Miranda. And I thought that was his first show, his first Broadway show, right? Cause when I, when it was so buzzy and I watched, you know, watched on Disney plus, and eventually when you could actually afford to get tickets, we went and saw it. And I thought,   you know, what a genius. He did this on his first, on his first go.

and then a few months ago I was on Disney plus and they had in the Heights by Lin-Manuel Miranda. And I was like, cool. He has something new. Turns out in the Heights was his first Broadway. It might’ve been off Broadway show. And so I watched it and it was so interesting because there were so many elements that he utilized in, the Heights, his first show that were pretty good, but they didn’t have the same power that they did in Hamilton.

And so you can kind of see some of those elements, the way that he had like the narrator, the way that he had like the rapping and the, you know, very fast talking and some of the musical elements, they were all there. was like, that reminds me of Hamilton.   but they didn’t have that power come to look at Hamilton. You can see how he took some of those elements and he just made them better. He was able to workshop them to bring them to fruition in this absolute masterpiece. And so I think that’s a.

example, you know, in the theater world of somebody who honed their craft with different reps. And I don’t have all the information on him. It’s possible he had, you know, I think he did go to get his MFA or he went to school for this. So he probably did some little plays, you know, smaller stuff while he was actually learning. But it all culminated in this masterpiece work. And it wasn’t like that just happened the very first time that he did something.

Ferol Vernon (16:43)

Sure.

Yeah, it’s an important dynamic in sort of like, you know, pop culture where we sort of, this is their breakout hit. And we think about that as first, because it’s the first time you heard of them, right? Like I’d never heard of him before Hamilton. And you look at like, you know, one of my favorite sort of movies franchise of all time, which is Star Wars.   And you know, that’s the first time most people heard of George Lucas, but it wasn’t his first movie. You know, his first movie was THX 1138, right? Which is like not a masterpiece. Yeah, right. Nobody else has.

Ricci (17:03)

Ryan.

Never heard of it.

Ferol Vernon (17:23)

And but then he went on to create one of the most successful franchises in media like of all time. And so I think, you know, there’s this concept of and we see it again and again and again. Right. So Michael Creighton, right. His first book was not Jurassic Park, but that’s probably the first one that you read. Right. And maybe the first   movie adaptation that you saw. And so

we see that like these great creatives and and the people that are listening to this pod, you’re part of that group. Right.

but your first work is not gonna be your best work necessarily. so when you think about the first book in your catalog, not only does increasing your catalog help your financial advantage,   it helps your craft,

right? It helps you become a better producer. So in the t-shirt example, know, it helps you create more innovative designs, more interesting types of apparel for your store. And I think that’s a really important thing because it can be very motivating when you think about instead of like, my gosh, book one’s not hitting.

You’re like, wow, how much did I learn writing that first book, right? I can’t wait to start book two because I’ve learned so much now I can get better. The other, the last point I’ll make on this that I did a little research before the show and I started looking at some of our customers who’ve written in series. Now today we’re talking about backlog, not specifically series, but   typically authors write their series in chronological order. They write book one before they write book seven. And when you look at the reviews and take the reviews with a grain of salt, but it is one measure.

Reviews tend to go up as a series goes longer, right? And that could be because the fandom stays with it, but it also could be authors get better at writing, right? And I think that we see this over and over again where, you know, often while you’re really interested and excited in book one, the other books become better as you hone your craft.

Ricci (19:08)

Yeah, I think this is just a fact of life. You practice does make perfect. You know, we say that to our kids all the time. And when you do something over and over again, you just get better at it.   both because you’re honing your craft and also because you’re learning like what resonates. I mean, even this pod, we’ve been doing it for about six months and I went back and listened to the first episode. I don’t know why I was doing that, but

Ferol Vernon (19:26)

Yeah.

Ricci (19:33)

It was cringy the first time and it was even more cringy this time. I was like, whoa, we were really, we were not that good. And I’m sure in a year’s time, we’re going to look back at this episode and think, oh my gosh, still not great. And that’s good because it means that you’re continuously improving. We’re also learning based on the feedback that we’re getting from everyone listening, like which topics resonate, which topics don’t. We’re also learning basic things like, I didn’t wear AirPods for the first.

Ferol Vernon (19:36)

watching.

Ricci (20:00)

10 episodes. there was feedback and it’s like, you got to put your AirPods in.   there’s, you know, just by doing you learn and you do get better and better. And that is definitely another benefit of growing your catalog, whether that’s writing into series or just writing standalones   that you can include, you know, within your catalog and your backlist.

Ferol Vernon (20:21)

Yeah, I have a friend and we always talk about like, we get together every, you we used to work together, we get together every now and again. And we say, man, like five years ago, I was such an idiot. Like if I’d only known now what I knew five years ago, and then, you know, we kind of, we had a beer and we’re looking at each other and you’re you know, if we ever, if we ever come here and we’ll be like, wow, I, I’m great. Like five years ago, I knew everything. It’s like, that’s a really good sign you’re not learning and not growing. Right. And so as authors, if you keep writing for those five years, you’ll be better and you’ll look back five years, you’ll be like, oh man, I wish.

which I knew now, what I knew then, what I know now.   But I think that’s the dynamic that we always see, right? Like if your first work is not as good as your subsequent work, that means you’re learning, right? It’s not a bad sign. So anybody who’s discouraged by like, my book one’s not taking off, that’s okay. You’re just at the start.

Ricci (21:08)

Yeah, absolutely. So let’s talk about if somebody’s listening to this and they’re like, yeah, I wrote my first book.   and like, I just don’t have it in me to, to write any more books, right? Like I just don’t want to do it. What do we do then?

Ferol Vernon (21:22)

Yep.

Yeah. I think this is,   it’s also a fair point, right? So we’re trying to   surface this opinion that we may be hearing without hearing it, but like, writing a book is hard, right? And I think that will resonate with everybody. It’s not an easy thing to do. And so if you are kind of done after one, or if you’re done after a few, whatever that is, and you’re like, I get it. Big backlog is better. I’m not going to do it, right?

What do you do next? And I think, you know, there are some options and we do have a few examples of how people have managed to make their career successful on a very limited catalog. And I think one of those examples from the nonfiction world is James Clear. And Ricci, I know that is one of your favorite books. I’ll let you sort of unpack that a little bit for us.

Ricci (22:10)

Yes James clear road atomic habits   it’s really just like an incredible book i think i bought it five or six years ago i have the hard copy and every january i go back to it cuz i have a bunch of stuff bookmarked and as i’m doing my intentions for the year and thinking about you building habits i reference that book. Now james it’s the only book that he is written and james had built a huge fan base before he published it so that’s that’s for another episode but he published it had a fan base and.

It’s consistently one of the top books on the nonfiction bestseller list and has been for years now. So he’s got one book and he’s selling that one book. And he’s made it really successful, right? And he has a trad publisher. They put a lot of marketing behind it. All the good things.   He also has translated the book into multiple languages. He’s gone into, you he has an audio book, multiple formats.   And so.

That’s one thing that he’s doing. He’s diversifying his product offering by taking the English hardcover book, putting in his different formats, different languages. Interestingly, this January, I was listening to a pod that he was on and he said, he’s also launching a workbook this year and he’s also launching like a desktop calendar, which I haven’t seen. So I’m not exactly sure how that’s going to work, but even James who’s been highly successful and only had the one book for a really long time is starting to see.

that he has a fan base who want more from him, you know, and I’ll buy more stuff from him. But he’s also said like, I don’t right now, I don’t have another book in me. I don’t have another topic that I want to write about. don’t have anything more to write about habits that isn’t in the current book. So he doesn’t want to put out another book. So what he’s doing instead is he’s building accompanying products and merch around the core asset that he has, which is that particular book.

I thought it was interesting that even somebody like James Clear, who has sold I think millions of copies of that book, is still, you you could be like, he probably has enough money, right? But even him, even he sees that, you know, he’s leaving money on the table, that there’s potential here, that people love his book and they want more from him. And so he’s trying to figure out how to do that on his own terms, but in a way that will both serve the core message of his current book, but also serve the people who are such big fans of his.

Ferol Vernon (24:07)

definitely millions. Yeah.

Yeah, and I think that’s a really great example from nonfiction. think he deserves a lot of credit for saying, don’t have another book in him instead of just writing something kind of garbagey that we would all buy anyway. He could have done that, but he’s not. I think he deserves a lot of credit for that. But on the sort of fiction side, there’s also a lot of options. And it’s actually, in some ways, because it’s based on imagination, easier to extend. James has said,

Ricci (24:43)

Right.  

Ferol Vernon (25:00)

hey, I don’t have another book in me because he doesn’t have another topic that he’s researched for thousands of hours that he wants to share with the world. Writing the fiction book, you can come up with all kinds of interesting ways if you don’t have another novel in you. And some of these, we’ve talked about before, but I think they’re really interesting. And you sort of mentioned it a little bit when you’re talking about atomic habits is like format. So that is like, hey, I have an ebook. Now I have an audio book. Hey, it’s in English. Now it’s in German, right? Now it’s in Spanish.

So you can take the same piece of content and then find new markets for it. You can find new formats for it.   One of the things that we’re really seeing now that I love are these special editions with the sprayed edges and the vinyl inserts. These are the same book as the ebook, but they’re beautiful collectible pieces, right? And so it’s not, have to write another book. You just have to work on creating a different format for the book that you already have.   I’ve read a lot of

fantasy and science fiction and you know one of the things that’s really cool in a lot of those books is maps and so maybe you’re not rewriting a book maybe you’re releasing a special edition map right you’re a special edition even short story things like that so I think if you don’t have another full-length book in you that’s okay there are a lot of ways you can sort of grow your business as an author without writing more books.

Ricci (26:21)

Yeah and I think in the fiction world there’s a lot of possibility for merch right so you could you could literally create t-shirts right with your characters on them you could have you know especially with you find a great illustrator with AI illustrations you could create something that that is your world you can take a quote that you have in the book that you know everybody mentions in the reviews and put that on a mug you could have stickers   so you know back to our analogy of the t-shirt shop if that owner is like

Ferol Vernon (26:30)

There you go.

Ricci (26:51)

look, I have the one t-shirt design and I have a collector’s edition of that t-shirt design. But then when you go up to the register, you can also buy stickers and you can buy a mug with that design. So basically taking that core asset and proliferating it onto other types of products and not necessarily on the t-shirt every time or in the, know, for authors, it doesn’t have to be that you’re now creating additional books within your catalog and your backlist.

Ferol Vernon (27:16)

Yeah, and just to tie it back to what we’re talking about at the beginning of the episode, it’s really just trying to drive up the total value of your catalog when you get a fan. So what can they buy? So if they can buy only one book, but they can buy the e-book, they can buy the special edition, they can buy the audio book, all of those things. They can buy a one-off map, they can buy a t-shirt. All of those things increase the total value of a fan as you’re spending money to acquire them through advertising. And the last thing I wanted to say on this

the people that sort of say, I’m one and done, you can also change your mindset. There are some folks who are not pursuing financial success. Writing that book is around legacy, storytelling, personal challenge, whatever it might be, and that’s okay as well. You shouldn’t feel like, hey, I’m not an author if I don’t want to write more. If you wrote, you’re an author. And I think people need to understand that. there’s ways to…

change your career to be more financially successful. And you can also change your mindset to say, you know, sometimes for some folks enough is enough and that’s a perfectly acceptable way to move forward.

Ricci (28:23)

Yeah i think it’s the difference between our books your hobby or are they your business right and if something is a hobby you spend money on it so people who play golf they’re spending money on golf and if you play if you go to yoga you’re spending money yoga studio those your hobbies and if you’re building a business that’s different you’re expecting the business to actually generate money for you

So figuring out which one is right for you is really important.

Ferol Vernon (28:50)

Yeah, and I think, you know, sometimes people hear this word hobbyist and they get a little sensitive and that’s not really what we’re talking about. What we’re talking about is people who are writing for the passion potentially and not the finances, right? And I think the most successful authors are doing both. They love it and they’re making money doing it, But that’s not for everybody. Some people like, you know, I love doing this. I love producing this. I love that it exists in the world, but I, you know, do something else to pay my rent, right? And that’s okay. But I think like figuring out what camp you are, like what does this book do for you?

Is it like you said, is this supposed to give me money? Right? Does this supposed to be like, you maybe a painting or something where it’s like something that fulfills me deeply inside, but maybe isn’t designed to give me money and kind of somewhere in between. And I think everybody’s just got to figure out where they are on that spectrum. And that can help you figure out, you know, which of the things that we’ve talked about is kind of the right next step.

Ricci (29:43)

da, and then I’ll be like.

Yes let’s bring it back to where we start in the beginning you know for the authors that trying to make money off of their box more books or more formats or more much you know having products that readers can buy from you is going to mean more income and. Maybe farrell you wanna recap. You know just some of the things that we talked about in the show today.

Ferol Vernon (30:05)

Yeah.

Yeah, and that dynamic that we see,   we see it every year, right? So this is not a new finding. It’s like more books, more financial success for authors. And we talked about how, you know, your first book’s not necessarily going to be your breakout success. Don’t worry about that. Don’t beat yourself up if that’s where you are. Having more books   almost always   allows you to have a more successful career. And that’s both because there’s more things for you to buy or for a reader to buy when they discover you and because your advertising spend goes farther when you have more.

things, right? And then the final thing is having that first book onto your belt and moving forward and continuing to write helps hone your craft so your products are better the more you work on them. And sort of you mentioned Ricci practice makes perfect, which is not always easy to hear, but it’s very, very true. So we really hope this was helpful explaining the power of your backlist, the power of having additional products. And, you know, we’re really looking forward to seeing everybody’s feedback in the comments, but what they think and   how their backlist is working for them.

Ricci (31:09)

Yeah, well, this has been really fun, great episode. Thanks Ferol for leading it as usual.

Ferol Vernon (31:15)

Absolutely.

Alright authors, that’s the show for today. I hope that was helpful explaining the mechanics of your backlist and of your catalog. Keep writing. We’re here to support you and we’ll see you on the next show.